Add Invoice problem for one vendor

One of our staff has reported the following problem that is occurring with
only one Vendor.

AP - Invoice Entry
Group, Select, Add
Invoice, Add
Type VENDOR ID, press TAB
Invoice field is grey and unavailable for apparently just one vendor

Work around for the problem is
AP - Invoice Entry
Type VENDOR ID, press TAB
Invoice, Add
Invoice field is available

As stated, only happening for one vendor. I cannot see anything unusual
about the way the vendor is setup. Happening in 4.00.904 (live) and
5.00.337 (soon).

PS Financials has never been my strong point.

Help !!!
We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?
Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
The Accountant is just funny about security and who has access to what.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Selinger, Jim [SMTP:jselinger@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:43 AM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
> Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry file?
> Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be so
> much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.
>
> Jim Selinger
> Production Scheduler
> Bley Eng. Co.
> 700 Chase Avenue
> Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
> (847) 437-0022
> jselinger@...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
>
> We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
> putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
> anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
> Has anybody seen this?
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Les,

What I can recommend is having someone in the know "on the manufacturing
side", like the scheduler or foreman or director of manufacturing in charge
of it. Do you have someone who checks labor daily? That is the key. Talk
him into having someone like that take care of it using labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Les Tingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:53 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


The Accountant is just funny about security and who has access to what.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Selinger, Jim [SMTP:jselinger@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:43 AM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
> Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry file?
> Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be so
> much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.
>
> Jim Selinger
> Production Scheduler
> Bley Eng. Co.
> 700 Chase Avenue
> Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
> (847) 437-0022
> jselinger@...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
>
> We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
> putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
> anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
> Has anybody seen this?
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
It's a she, and she is reluctantly agreeing. Thanks
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Selinger, Jim [SMTP:jselinger@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:00 AM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
> Les,
>
> What I can recommend is having someone in the know "on the manufacturing
> side", like the scheduler or foreman or director of manufacturing in
> charge
> of it. Do you have someone who checks labor daily? That is the key.
> Talk
> him into having someone like that take care of it using labor entry.
>
> Jim Selinger
> Production Scheduler
> Bley Eng. Co.
> 700 Chase Avenue
> Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
> (847) 437-0022
> jselinger@...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Tingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:53 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
>
>
> The Accountant is just funny about security and who has access to what.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Selinger, Jim [SMTP:jselinger@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:43 AM
> > To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
> >
> > Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
> file?
> > Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
> so
> > much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.
> >
> > Jim Selinger
> > Production Scheduler
> > Bley Eng. Co.
> > 700 Chase Avenue
> > Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
> > (847) 437-0022
> > jselinger@...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1
> >
> >
> > We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
> > putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
> > anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
> > Has anybody seen this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
This is an interesting philosophy as to how best to maintain within the
system what is really happening on the shop floor! I know the email to
which I am responding was referencing Vantage 5.1, but this applies to
Vantage in total.

We have had to manually review each and every job for the accuracy of
what was "planned" versus what "actually" completed (according to labor
input) - and we are still on timecards. Just the fact that someone has
to make a correction within the system for this type of activity is a
good indication of built-in non-valued added effort. Wouldn't it seem
that if we want the system to always be current with "the activity on
the shop floor" that the quantity complete be entered when the product
is received to stores? Even for product that ships directly from the
shop floor, there should be a stores completion operation to account for
the correct quantity.

Our approach is that we don't ever, ever, ever want to see a different
quantity manufactured than that which was ordered. That is not for the
shop technician to decide (it seems a little like the tail wagging the
dog). I think a nice switch within Vantage would be to allow the user
company to switch this off and default the completed quantity to the
required quantity. If the quantity should change after release, then
make that change from the planner's desktop to direct a quantity change
- not to have the shop say "I can make 20 of these as cheaply as the 12
you have ordered." This latter type of thinking is what generates
inventory mismatches and massive queue times in the shop - and it is
traditional thinking.

As a custom sign manufacturer, we typically manufacture in "small
batches" with an emphasis on "one-piece flow." For those of you who
have made the progressive leap toward "lean manufacturing" you will
understand my position on this.

Your comments or feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Jim

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Selinger, Jim [mailto:jselinger@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:43 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1

Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
007183:HM/A=915130/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http:/shoppin
g.yahoo.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01>


<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705007183:HM/A=915130/rand=667451391>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Although I do understand you position on this and I do support you intention
whole heartedly, this would only work in a perfect world. I have worked
with many companies that cannot make an exact quantity of product because of
the way a machine operates or other factor. It is important to record the
exact number produced so that you know where the waste is or how much raw
material you are using to create how much finished goods.

I have also used several other MRP packages and in all cases jobs must be
reviewed in order to determine that all costs were sent to the job properly.
Here again, this problem will only go away when the human factor becomes
more accurate. If you start with a good manual procedure for tracing raw
materials, labor, and finished goods, then apply those good habits to your
manual system then you will have fewer and fewer discrepancies on jobs.

In any event all of these issues are drive by the human equation, if it is
important and not doing a good job has real consequences eventually things
get done right, but in so many instances people buy into the concept that it
cannot work the way it is suppose to and they accept that and then complain
when things don't work, aren't correct, and can't be depended on.

Apologies for the lecture.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1 cameron@...
Toll Free: 866-464-7421
Office: 708-445-7509
Cell: 630-712-9520
Office Fax: 630-893-1307
Direct Fax: 443-638-0489
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1


This is an interesting philosophy as to how best to maintain within the
system what is really happening on the shop floor! I know the email to
which I am responding was referencing Vantage 5.1, but this applies to
Vantage in total.

We have had to manually review each and every job for the accuracy of
what was "planned" versus what "actually" completed (according to labor
input) - and we are still on timecards. Just the fact that someone has
to make a correction within the system for this type of activity is a
good indication of built-in non-valued added effort. Wouldn't it seem
that if we want the system to always be current with "the activity on
the shop floor" that the quantity complete be entered when the product
is received to stores? Even for product that ships directly from the
shop floor, there should be a stores completion operation to account for
the correct quantity.

Our approach is that we don't ever, ever, ever want to see a different
quantity manufactured than that which was ordered. That is not for the
shop technician to decide (it seems a little like the tail wagging the
dog). I think a nice switch within Vantage would be to allow the user
company to switch this off and default the completed quantity to the
required quantity. If the quantity should change after release, then
make that change from the planner's desktop to direct a quantity change
- not to have the shop say "I can make 20 of these as cheaply as the 12
you have ordered." This latter type of thinking is what generates
inventory mismatches and massive queue times in the shop - and it is
traditional thinking.

As a custom sign manufacturer, we typically manufacture in "small
batches" with an emphasis on "one-piece flow." For those of you who
have made the progressive leap toward "lean manufacturing" you will
understand my position on this.

Your comments or feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Jim

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Selinger, Jim [mailto:jselinger@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:43 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1

Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
007183:HM/A=915130/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http:/shoppin
g.yahoo.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01>


<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=1705007183:HM/A=915130/rand=667451391>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim,

The system switch setting to the alternate logic path you are describing
might be worth pursuing.

For us we issue large plates of steel to laser and flame cutting tables to
be cut up into parts for customers. Industry standard for this kind of work
is that +/- 10% qty the customer takes the net yield from the plate. So if
theoretical yield is 100 pcs per plate and the we loose 2% to scrap on the
machine the qty completed will be 98. Given that these plates are 96 x 240
inches and up to 14 inches thick the last thing we want our operators to do
is to pull a second plate just to cut the 2 parts that were scrapped on the
first plate. Drop management is already a disaster for us ...

Of course, our parts cleaners ( $ 1.00 / hr no questions asked ), also tend
to scrap parts by being over zealous with snag grinders so it's not unusual
to loose a few more parts after this operation. The parts cleaners also
seem to have trouble counting.

So, here is the typical flow --- A job hit the floor for 100 pcs ....
flamecutting cuts 95 pcs ... parts cleaners report 82 pcs cleaned ... then
we send it to a sub-contractor for an added operation and they return it
with paperwork to show they completed 91 pcs ... final inspection then
reports 96 pcs pass inspection and have been put to stock.

We actually find all of this somewhat amusing ... Eliminating "human" error
has proven difficult both inside our shop and at our subcontractors.

My grandfather worked in the furniture industry in Rockford in the early
20's. As a shop superintendent his first test for the recently arrived
Swedish immigrants was to see if they could count. Anyone who could
successfully count the number of parts on palate was assigned to either
shipping or inspection. The one's that couldn't count he turned into
machine operators ... ( I'm not kidding ... )

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1


This is an interesting philosophy as to how best to maintain within the
system what is really happening on the shop floor! I know the email to
which I am responding was referencing Vantage 5.1, but this applies to
Vantage in total.

We have had to manually review each and every job for the accuracy of
what was "planned" versus what "actually" completed (according to labor
input) - and we are still on timecards. Just the fact that someone has
to make a correction within the system for this type of activity is a
good indication of built-in non-valued added effort. Wouldn't it seem
that if we want the system to always be current with "the activity on
the shop floor" that the quantity complete be entered when the product
is received to stores? Even for product that ships directly from the
shop floor, there should be a stores completion operation to account for
the correct quantity.

Our approach is that we don't ever, ever, ever want to see a different
quantity manufactured than that which was ordered. That is not for the
shop technician to decide (it seems a little like the tail wagging the
dog). I think a nice switch within Vantage would be to allow the user
company to switch this off and default the completed quantity to the
required quantity. If the quantity should change after release, then
make that change from the planner's desktop to direct a quantity change
- not to have the shop say "I can make 20 of these as cheaply as the 12
you have ordered." This latter type of thinking is what generates
inventory mismatches and massive queue times in the shop - and it is
traditional thinking.

As a custom sign manufacturer, we typically manufacture in "small
batches" with an emphasis on "one-piece flow." For those of you who
have made the progressive leap toward "lean manufacturing" you will
understand my position on this.

Your comments or feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Jim

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Selinger, Jim [mailto:jselinger@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:43 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1

Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

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Terms of Service.


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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Todd & Cameron,

I appreciate your responses. In both cases, don't you see that with
your work environs, counting at the stores level would simplify the
process and reduce (and, I say again: "non-value added") corrections to
the system? When we have a population of 15 shop technicians - or, 150
shop technicians, performing labor input that dictates the quantity
completed, there is undoubtedly going to be errors. These errors are
caused by poor training, illiteracy, employee turnover, and on and on.

I understand completely when management says, "I want to know exactly
who is generating that scrap and rework, and I want to know now!"
Unfortunately, we don't need all these intricate steps within the
software to provide that information. In reality, if we are managing
our operations, we know it already, because it is there right in front
of us.

In fairness to Cameron, it should be understood that Vantage is an
MRP-based solution. We are in our second year of "lean" implementation
and MRP is the devil in a lean operation. From this perspective,
Vantage is a "push" solution while I really am trying to make it "pull."
In any event, when you analyze the efforts put into the administrative
side of capturing the "correct" quantity complete, and the continual
(and, correct me if I am wrong here) adjustments to resolve the
inaccuracy of the shop technicians, I think we need to explore some
alternate "switches" within Vantage. And, in all candor, the software
should maintain it current capabilities for those who wish to manage
their operations in the traditional manner. Manufacturing companies
need to progress forward to stay in the race, and the software has to
move in that direction if it is to support their objectives.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1

Jim,

The system switch setting to the alternate logic path you are describing
might be worth pursuing.

For us we issue large plates of steel to laser and flame cutting tables
to
be cut up into parts for customers. Industry standard for this kind of
work
is that +/- 10% qty the customer takes the net yield from the plate. So
if
theoretical yield is 100 pcs per plate and the we loose 2% to scrap on
the
machine the qty completed will be 98. Given that these plates are 96 x
240
inches and up to 14 inches thick the last thing we want our operators to
do
is to pull a second plate just to cut the 2 parts that were scrapped on
the
first plate. Drop management is already a disaster for us ...

Of course, our parts cleaners ( $ 1.00 / hr no questions asked ), also
tend
to scrap parts by being over zealous with snag grinders so it's not
unusual
to loose a few more parts after this operation. The parts cleaners also
seem to have trouble counting.

So, here is the typical flow --- A job hit the floor for 100 pcs ....
flamecutting cuts 95 pcs ... parts cleaners report 82 pcs cleaned ...
then
we send it to a sub-contractor for an added operation and they return it
with paperwork to show they completed 91 pcs ... final inspection then
reports 96 pcs pass inspection and have been put to stock.

We actually find all of this somewhat amusing ... Eliminating "human"
error
has proven difficult both inside our shop and at our subcontractors.

My grandfather worked in the furniture industry in Rockford in the early
20's. As a shop superintendent his first test for the recently arrived
Swedish immigrants was to see if they could count. Anyone who could
successfully count the number of parts on palate was assigned to either
shipping or inspection. The one's that couldn't count he turned into
machine operators ... ( I'm not kidding ... )

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1


This is an interesting philosophy as to how best to maintain within the
system what is really happening on the shop floor! I know the email to
which I am responding was referencing Vantage 5.1, but this applies to
Vantage in total.

We have had to manually review each and every job for the accuracy of
what was "planned" versus what "actually" completed (according to labor
input) - and we are still on timecards. Just the fact that someone has
to make a correction within the system for this type of activity is a
good indication of built-in non-valued added effort. Wouldn't it seem
that if we want the system to always be current with "the activity on
the shop floor" that the quantity complete be entered when the product
is received to stores? Even for product that ships directly from the
shop floor, there should be a stores completion operation to account for
the correct quantity.

Our approach is that we don't ever, ever, ever want to see a different
quantity manufactured than that which was ordered. That is not for the
shop technician to decide (it seems a little like the tail wagging the
dog). I think a nice switch within Vantage would be to allow the user
company to switch this off and default the completed quantity to the
required quantity. If the quantity should change after release, then
make that change from the planner's desktop to direct a quantity change
- not to have the shop say "I can make 20 of these as cheaply as the 12
you have ordered." This latter type of thinking is what generates
inventory mismatches and massive queue times in the shop - and it is
traditional thinking.

As a custom sign manufacturer, we typically manufacture in "small
batches" with an emphasis on "one-piece flow." For those of you who
have made the progressive leap toward "lean manufacturing" you will
understand my position on this.

Your comments or feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Jim

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Selinger, Jim [mailto:jselinger@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:43 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1

Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


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>
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>
pmail/S=1705007183:HM/A=915130/rand=667451391>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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pmai
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=915128/rand=927186604>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim,

Part of me agrees with you about the futility and expense involved.

For us, many of our jobs take 2-3 weeks to migrate through the pipes. If we
can see that only 62 pcs out of 100 were completed on operation 1 of 10 then
we can at least find the job / operator and verify if we have a problem
brewing or just a brain dead data entry person. If we wait until the job is
complete to find out we are short we will not have time to respond.

Generally the longer a "Job" exists the more important data collection
becomes. For companies that start and finish jobs in a few hrs time or even
a few days using only 1 or 2 operations it's not an issue and what you are
describing makes more sense. Generally the same companies with "Short" job
windows are also interested in back flushing their raw materials for the
same reason.

Personal feeling is that this isn't exactly a black or white issue. There
are probably many shades of gray in-between.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1


Todd & Cameron,

I appreciate your responses. In both cases, don't you see that with
your work environs, counting at the stores level would simplify the
process and reduce (and, I say again: "non-value added") corrections to
the system? When we have a population of 15 shop technicians - or, 150
shop technicians, performing labor input that dictates the quantity
completed, there is undoubtedly going to be errors. These errors are
caused by poor training, illiteracy, employee turnover, and on and on.

I understand completely when management says, "I want to know exactly
who is generating that scrap and rework, and I want to know now!"
Unfortunately, we don't need all these intricate steps within the
software to provide that information. In reality, if we are managing
our operations, we know it already, because it is there right in front
of us.

In fairness to Cameron, it should be understood that Vantage is an
MRP-based solution. We are in our second year of "lean" implementation
and MRP is the devil in a lean operation. From this perspective,
Vantage is a "push" solution while I really am trying to make it "pull."
In any event, when you analyze the efforts put into the administrative
side of capturing the "correct" quantity complete, and the continual
(and, correct me if I am wrong here) adjustments to resolve the
inaccuracy of the shop technicians, I think we need to explore some
alternate "switches" within Vantage. And, in all candor, the software
should maintain it current capabilities for those who wish to manage
their operations in the traditional manner. Manufacturing companies
need to progress forward to stay in the race, and the software has to
move in that direction if it is to support their objectives.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1

Jim,

The system switch setting to the alternate logic path you are describing
might be worth pursuing.

For us we issue large plates of steel to laser and flame cutting tables
to
be cut up into parts for customers. Industry standard for this kind of
work
is that +/- 10% qty the customer takes the net yield from the plate. So
if
theoretical yield is 100 pcs per plate and the we loose 2% to scrap on
the
machine the qty completed will be 98. Given that these plates are 96 x
240
inches and up to 14 inches thick the last thing we want our operators to
do
is to pull a second plate just to cut the 2 parts that were scrapped on
the
first plate. Drop management is already a disaster for us ...

Of course, our parts cleaners ( $ 1.00 / hr no questions asked ), also
tend
to scrap parts by being over zealous with snag grinders so it's not
unusual
to loose a few more parts after this operation. The parts cleaners also
seem to have trouble counting.

So, here is the typical flow --- A job hit the floor for 100 pcs ....
flamecutting cuts 95 pcs ... parts cleaners report 82 pcs cleaned ...
then
we send it to a sub-contractor for an added operation and they return it
with paperwork to show they completed 91 pcs ... final inspection then
reports 96 pcs pass inspection and have been put to stock.

We actually find all of this somewhat amusing ... Eliminating "human"
error
has proven difficult both inside our shop and at our subcontractors.

My grandfather worked in the furniture industry in Rockford in the early
20's. As a shop superintendent his first test for the recently arrived
Swedish immigrants was to see if they could count. Anyone who could
successfully count the number of parts on palate was assigned to either
shipping or inspection. The one's that couldn't count he turned into
machine operators ... ( I'm not kidding ... )

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:56 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection 5.1


This is an interesting philosophy as to how best to maintain within the
system what is really happening on the shop floor! I know the email to
which I am responding was referencing Vantage 5.1, but this applies to
Vantage in total.

We have had to manually review each and every job for the accuracy of
what was "planned" versus what "actually" completed (according to labor
input) - and we are still on timecards. Just the fact that someone has
to make a correction within the system for this type of activity is a
good indication of built-in non-valued added effort. Wouldn't it seem
that if we want the system to always be current with "the activity on
the shop floor" that the quantity complete be entered when the product
is received to stores? Even for product that ships directly from the
shop floor, there should be a stores completion operation to account for
the correct quantity.

Our approach is that we don't ever, ever, ever want to see a different
quantity manufactured than that which was ordered. That is not for the
shop technician to decide (it seems a little like the tail wagging the
dog). I think a nice switch within Vantage would be to allow the user
company to switch this off and default the completed quantity to the
required quantity. If the quantity should change after release, then
make that change from the planner's desktop to direct a quantity change
- not to have the shop say "I can make 20 of these as cheaply as the 12
you have ordered." This latter type of thinking is what generates
inventory mismatches and massive queue times in the shop - and it is
traditional thinking.

As a custom sign manufacturer, we typically manufacture in "small
batches" with an emphasis on "one-piece flow." For those of you who
have made the progressive leap toward "lean manufacturing" you will
understand my position on this.

Your comments or feedback is welcome.

Regards,

Jim

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Selinger, Jim [mailto:jselinger@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:43 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1

Why don't you just update the quantity in the operator's labor entry
file?
Or, use job adjustment and type in a negative number? But, it would be
so
much easier to put the correct count into labor entry.

Jim Selinger
Production Scheduler
Bley Eng. Co.
700 Chase Avenue
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
(847) 437-0022
jselinger@...


-----Original Message-----
From: lptingley [mailto:ltingley@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] negative numbers in Data Collection 5.1


We used to be able to correct entry errors (completed Qty's) by
putting in negative numbers in Data Collections. This doesn't work
anymore. Our Accountant wants plant supervisors to do it this way.
Has anybody seen this?



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> > >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> > >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
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(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> > >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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< http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705>
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< http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egrou
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egrou>
pmail/S=1705007183:HM/A=915128/rand=714962913>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=915128/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http://shopping.yahoo
.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01>

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=915128/rand=705274851>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]