Crystal Reports-Left Outer Join Error

Yahoo Archive
1
Patty,
You might need the Outjoin registry fix for Crystal and ODBC. There is
one for the Merant 3.6 drivers on the egroups files list here
http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/INmZP9tEn2tpZUpO1MyqT-quOLpWmsTb6HGH75qHiW42Yp9
ab2KbvNgC8r5SIZgjTofTbXi5QGs28Am4-OpRl8plOTIr/Vantage%20Admin/Crystal.reg

If you are using a different version of ODBC drivers, you may need to
contact Seagate Software (Crystal) support for the proper file. I have one
for Merant 3.5 if you happen to have that version.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

-----Original Message-----
From: patty.cioffi [mailto:patty.cioffi@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:41 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage]Crystal Reports-Left Outer Join Error


I am hoping somebody can help me. I am using Vantage 5.10.135 and
Crystal Reports 8.0.
I can't join tables. The error message stops me with a 'no left outer
join' message. Do I have to have a left outer join? Or is there some
sort of patch I need to download?

Another thing is I also get a progress driver error, but my database
connections match the instructions.

Does anybody have time to give me a few starter tips?
Patty
EFS Aerospace.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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2
I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie
3
At the northeast users meeting a few weeks ago, Mark Pladson was there and
made it clear that PROGRESS is discontinuing report builder. In fact,
EPICOR tried to persuade progress to keep supporting it, but progress said
no, basically because there are so many better reporting tools out there.
I, for one, rarely use report builder, b/c of the variety of excellent
external reporting tools like crystal and Microsoft. Both of which I find
much more user-friendly and I have had great success with both.

However, from listening to Mark, Epicor understands that a quick and easy
reporting tool is necessary for users and they are making efforts to find a
suitable replacement. Also, Mark pointed out that with the enhancements in
new and upcoming versions of vantage, your users may need less 'canned'
reports. He showed us some of the capabilities of the upcoming releases for
external reporting via web even, and they are really impressive.

While there is a heck of a lot of work involved in converting all your
reports from report builder, you will probably end up with a much better and
more user-friendly reporting system than you had with report builder. Just
my opinion...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
I hear ya Lonnie. We've got a bunch of RB imbedded in the Vantage menu.
Our HR software
also went from a RB-like report generator to Crystal. Seems that the whole
world is going
that way. Crystal Reports is included in the dotnet studio package too. I
really like the
ease that a report can be generated via Report Builder. No connection stuff
to worry about.
Well, you know the old saying......"what don't kill you will make you
stronger". Man, I ought
to be able to whip my weight in mountain-lions.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant


I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6
Here's an AMEN from me Lonnie, I have literally HUNDREDS of RB reports,
dozens on automated after hours production along with DOZENS in my menu,
countless VB buttons kicking out on demand reports for users. So WHO
benefits from dumping RB, who PROFITS from dumping RB, not me and mine.
Are OUR lives and process made better by dumping RB I don't think so.
This adds MASSIVE cost to upgrade, not only in TIME SPENT, but in
tweeking those reports to get the same results. This is just another
heavy handed Corporate decision. Wish I had been at Perspectives,
SOMEBODY would have been heckled when that came up.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant

I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie





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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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Tracking #: A871763D2F3C1A4BA21991015C2087D65B537221


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
I don't understand why something can't be done. Count my vote in with
Shirley and Lonnie. The thought of losing all of the automatic
reporting we've worked so hard to accomplish here is infuriating and the
costs to make these changes are staggering.

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
Plitek, L.L.C.
69 Rawls Road
Des Plaines, IL 60018
Fax: 847-827-6733
PH: 847-827-6680 x223
www.plitek.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:32 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow
me to rant


Here's an AMEN from me Lonnie, I have literally HUNDREDS of RB reports,
dozens on automated after hours production along with DOZENS in my menu,
countless VB buttons kicking out on demand reports for users. So WHO
benefits from dumping RB, who PROFITS from dumping RB, not me and mine.
Are OUR lives and process made better by dumping RB I don't think so.
This adds MASSIVE cost to upgrade, not only in TIME SPENT, but in
tweeking those reports to get the same results. This is just another
heavy handed Corporate decision. Wish I had been at Perspectives,
SOMEBODY would have been heckled when that came up.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant

I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


ADVERTISEMENT

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007183:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co
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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

Tracking #: A871763D2F3C1A4BA21991015C2087D65B537221


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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
In several sessions at Perspectives and Progress rep made is very clear that the decision was made very high up at Progress to concentrate on the database side and to leave reporting to others. This was a decision made by Progress not Epicor and even with Epicor's clout there was not enough to keep it as a product offering. Perhaps in hindsight a mistake on Epicor's part way back in hanging their reporting hat on RB.

Probably the biggest issue I heard was from one person who had recently taken the RB class from Epicor only to now find it is going away. She said the info from Epicor at that time was very confused or just plain wrong. Which says to me they knew RB was in jeopardy but internal scuttlebut was misleading people they could save it. Overly optimistic as it turned out.

That said, RB is not really going away until you go to Sonoma (on Progress 10) and even then it will still run existing reports (so I've been told). They just will not provide RB development as part of the Progress 10 distribution. I'm not sure if you could retain an old version of Vantage as a seperate installation (like an upgrade test DB in reverse) and continue to develop but run with P10. At the least, for us, I figure Sonoma is 2 years away so I will continue to use and develop RB for Q&D reporting and Crystal or VBI for complicated stuff. By the time we get to Sonoma there will very likley be other reporting tools, maybe a Crystal Lite.

VBI was promoted at Perspectives as a good alternative but there is a pretty steep cost difference. Now there's a case of conflict of interest in the demise of RB if I ever saw one. I suspect the vast majority of our reporting on Sonoma will be VBI but it may take 2 years for me to be able to learn it well enough. But making a very complicated and expensive reporting product the "solution" to reporting won't help them sell new installations. I've been a reference for several prospective Vantage sites and RB has been one of the features of Vantage I've been most excited about. Now reporting will be a negative unless they come up with a cheap, easy to learn , easy to develop reporting tool.

Wild idea - Epicor talks to Progress about selling RB core to CorVu (maybe in partnership with Epicor) and CorVu maintains and sells it as a light reporting tool. This way Epicor keeps a good selling point, CorVu gets entry level customers and Progress gets rid of it.

-Todd C.



-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to rant


I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Thanks to all that responded.

The church welcomes true-believers, and is considering
an "inquisition" into this affair complete with burning-at-the-stake
for responsible parties.

-Annoyed in Anniston Alabama

(I'm typing a follow-up, but I keep getting interupted by work of all
things.)
10
Heckled?

Really Shirley, I would have expected at least a public whipping from you !

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:32 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant


Here's an AMEN from me Lonnie, I have literally HUNDREDS of RB reports,
dozens on automated after hours production along with DOZENS in my menu,
countless VB buttons kicking out on demand reports for users. So WHO
benefits from dumping RB, who PROFITS from dumping RB, not me and mine.
Are OUR lives and process made better by dumping RB I don't think so.
This adds MASSIVE cost to upgrade, not only in TIME SPENT, but in
tweeking those reports to get the same results. This is just another
heavy handed Corporate decision. Wish I had been at Perspectives,
SOMEBODY would have been heckled when that came up.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant

I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


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007183:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co
de=30509&media=atkins> click here


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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou>
pmail/S=:HM/A=1732161/rand=685598525>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
Terms of Service.

Tracking #: A871763D2F3C1A4BA21991015C2087D65B537221


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
It may be a heavy handed decision, but it was made by Progress, not Epicor.
I believe the confusion about Report Builder that we've all been aware of
for several months was generated by the fact that Epicor thought they could
get Progress to keep Report Builder. Progress said no, so Epicor has been
left holding the bag. This is kind of what has happened to many of us in
the past when Epicor made a change that didn't make any sense for OUR
BUSINESS, but we had to live with it anyhow. As one of the comments earlier
said, this change to all Crystal all the time won't come to pass until we
switch to Progress version 10, and that is not until the upgrade of Vantage
to Sonoma (version 7.0), which is currently scheduled Q2 of 2004--and we all
know how long it usually takes to jump on the new release bandwagon.

Epicor's Vantage folks at Perspectives seemed resigned, but none of them
seemed happy that report builder is headed to boot hill. Mark Pladson even
used the expression "our old friend Report Builder" in one session.

Hopefully, there will be some other quick and dirty report method by the
time we are all thinking of rolling up to 7.0 -- which, by the way, looks
like quite a cool upgrade.

I attended one session that was a real eye-opener (for me) about ODBC. I
haven't used it, but it looks like a lot of the things I currently do in RB
I can do in Excel with ODBC, so we'll see how that works out.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow
me to rant


Heckled?

Really Shirley, I would have expected at least a public whipping from you !

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:32 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant


Here's an AMEN from me Lonnie, I have literally HUNDREDS of RB reports,
dozens on automated after hours production along with DOZENS in my menu,
countless VB buttons kicking out on demand reports for users. So WHO
benefits from dumping RB, who PROFITS from dumping RB, not me and mine.
Are OUR lives and process made better by dumping RB I don't think so.
This adds MASSIVE cost to upgrade, not only in TIME SPENT, but in
tweeking those reports to get the same results. This is just another
heavy handed Corporate decision. Wish I had been at Perspectives,
SOMEBODY would have been heckled when that came up.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to
rant

I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie





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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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12
Well this announcement made at Perspectives has definitely stirred peoples passions like the Santa Ana winds are fanning the flames of the SoCal brushfires!

In regards to the comments made by the Progress reps...even with Report Builder I wouldn't say that Progress was ever in the reporting business. Progress licensed a product called "R&R Report Writer" that became what we now know as Report Builder. I still have an old version of R&R and it was identical to Report Builder at the time that Progress was installed at Connor in 1996.

I definitely do emphasize with users who have a multitude of Report Builder reports. Between all our divisions I would guess that we have over 200 active Report Builder reports in use. It will definitely take an investment in time (i.e. $$$) to convert these to some other reporting tool.

I have to admit to a lessening dependence on Report Builder due to it's limitations. I code reports now almost exclusively in Crystal Reports because, in my opinion, it is a much richer reporting tool. Some formula tasks that would take quite a while to write in Report Builder are just a few mouse clicks in Crystal. This and the ability to format reports easily in a manner that makes the executives feel all warm and fuzzy about the numbers they are seeing make this one of my favourite tools in my utility belt.

However I still see the value in Report Builder for simple table listings for 'rookie' report writers. In my opinion someone should have some formal training if they are going to write reports in Crystal.

Just my $0.034 SGD for the day.

Mike





-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:03 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to rant


In several sessions at Perspectives and Progress rep made is very clear that the decision was made very high up at Progress to concentrate on the database side and to leave reporting to others. This was a decision made by Progress not Epicor and even with Epicor's clout there was not enough to keep it as a product offering. Perhaps in hindsight a mistake on Epicor's part way back in hanging their reporting hat on RB.

Probably the biggest issue I heard was from one person who had recently taken the RB class from Epicor only to now find it is going away. She said the info from Epicor at that time was very confused or just plain wrong. Which says to me they knew RB was in jeopardy but internal scuttlebut was misleading people they could save it. Overly optimistic as it turned out.

That said, RB is not really going away until you go to Sonoma (on Progress 10) and even then it will still run existing reports (so I've been told). They just will not provide RB development as part of the Progress 10 distribution. I'm not sure if you could retain an old version of Vantage as a seperate installation (like an upgrade test DB in reverse) and continue to develop but run with P10. At the least, for us, I figure Sonoma is 2 years away so I will continue to use and develop RB for Q&D reporting and Crystal or VBI for complicated stuff. By the time we get to Sonoma there will very likley be other reporting tools, maybe a Crystal Lite.

VBI was promoted at Perspectives as a good alternative but there is a pretty steep cost difference. Now there's a case of conflict of interest in the demise of RB if I ever saw one. I suspect the vast majority of our reporting on Sonoma will be VBI but it may take 2 years for me to be able to learn it well enough. But making a very complicated and expensive reporting product the "solution" to reporting won't help them sell new installations. I've been a reference for several prospective Vantage sites and RB has been one of the features of Vantage I've been most excited about. Now reporting will be a negative unless they come up with a cheap, easy to learn , easy to develop reporting tool.

Wild idea - Epicor talks to Progress about selling RB core to CorVu (maybe in partnership with Epicor) and CorVu maintains and sells it as a light reporting tool. This way Epicor keeps a good selling point, CorVu gets entry level customers and Progress gets rid of it.

-Todd C.



-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:15 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Report Builder -> Crystal Reports: Please allow me to rant


I know this topic has been covered, but I'm still quite disturbed
Report Builder will be "phased out". With hundreds of RB reports
deployed or available, plus hundreds more that are either variations,
works-in-process, or templates, and a couple of dozen Progress
programs that use the RB engine, this is shaping up to be a
tremendous amount of rework and waste.

What reasoning has Epicor used to justify this switch? Is Progress
behind this?

I've had a couple of Crystal classes but it seems bloated, and below
RB in "ease of use" factor.

What about running a Crystal report from a program? From the Vantage
menu? Speaking of which, how does Vantage launch a Crystal report?
Does anybody have an example in Progress?

Installing and testing Crystal Enterprise has been a nightmare. So
far it's only functioned on Server 2000/2003, and Vantage/Progress
must be installed on same machine. What have other installations
found?

What about the sales-driven design of CrystalDecisions.com (and all
that entails)? Quite disturbing.

Can anyone recommend another reporting package? Any Corvu users
willing to sing praises?

Is Epicor trying to "wean" us from the Progress platform? Could this
be the reason Caesar Development is MIA, and we can't get Caesar Data
Collection compatible with 6.0?

Am I preaching to the choir? Let me have an amen.

-Lonnie



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




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13
I am hoping somebody can help me. I am using Vantage 5.10.135 and
Crystal Reports 8.0.
I can't join tables. The error message stops me with a 'no left outer
join' message. Do I have to have a left outer join? Or is there some
sort of patch I need to download?

Another thing is I also get a progress driver error, but my database
connections match the instructions.

Does anybody have time to give me a few starter tips?
Patty
EFS Aerospace.



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