Do I need a new server

You say your DB is 23GB in size, but where is all that space located?

I generally find that a DB that size, the majority of the space is usually
taken up by the Change Logs.

For example, I am currently working on a database that is 17GB in size,
however their change logs alone take up 11GB of that space.

Purging change logs from old data is an excellent way to clear up DB space
and reduce it in overall size. Many people don't even realize the volume of
data that they have in the change logs.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
michael.hutcheson@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 11:16 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Do I need a new server

Ok, I reduced the APW to 2 and the lock table entries to 8192 (which was the
default). With regards to the # of blocks in DB buffer - we are using
standard 4 blocks, so the current setting of 160000 translates to 655mb. I
tried to increase this to 480000 which translates to 1.9GB but the the app
server would not start. (The server has 8GB and is the Enterprise edition of
Server 03 so all 8GB is recognized). The following was recorded in the logs:


-- Unable to attach shared memory
Global\sharemem.e.epicor.mfgsys803.db.mfgsys.0, error 0. (1720)

I spoke with Epicor who said a bug is present in OpenEdge 10.1B that will
not allow the value to go above a certain point - however they did not know
what point. Using trial and error, it appears the value cannot go above
180000 which translates to 747 mb. We are using the latest SP3 and hotfix 33
for OpenEdge and Epicor do not have an answer.

Where do I go from here? Our database is 23GB in size and only 655mb is in
RAM.

Regards,

Michael


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Zac Jason Woodward <zac@...> wrote:
>
> In addition you have to be on 9.05 or higher to be able to get true multi
core CPU support.
>
> "Zac" Jason Woodward
> Network Administrator
> Intermountain Electronics, Inc.
> O: 877-544-2291
> M: 435-820-6515
> F: 435-637-9601
> www.ie-corp.com
>
> Creating customer confidence through extraordinary service and experienced
industry experts.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Hatcher, John
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:42 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Do I need a new server
>
>
>
> It's not just windows but OpenEdge that is limiting memory use. It is
> my understanding that you need to be on 10.2 or higher and a version
> of windows that supports 64bit to make use of anything beyond 4Gb.
>
> John A. Hatcher
> Manager of IS
> Versa Products Co., Inc.
> (201) 843-2400 x4148
> (201) 843-2931 fax
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Hey folks,

I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:

HP Proliant ML 370G5
Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
8 GB RAM
Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor

Vantage 8.03.406
Progress 10.1B SP3

This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.

So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday, if it actually helps though.

Regards,

Michael
We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.



Thanks,

Blake Clemens

IT Systems Engineer

Delmarva Millwork Corporation

(800) 360-2364 x132

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of michael.hutcheson@...
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server





Hey folks,

I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite
the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:

HP Proliant ML 370G5
Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
8 GB RAM
Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor

Vantage 8.03.406
Progress 10.1B SP3

This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database
was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.

So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I
did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
if it actually helps though.

Regards,

Michael





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
you have enough juice.

I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.

Just my 2cents


*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@...>wrote:

>
>
> We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blake Clemens
>
> IT Systems Engineer
>
> Delmarva Millwork Corporation
>
> (800) 360-2364 x132
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of michael.hutcheson@...
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
>
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite
> the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
>
> HP Proliant ML 370G5
> Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> 8 GB RAM
> Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
>
> Vantage 8.03.406
> Progress 10.1B SP3
>
> This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database
> was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
>
> So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I
> did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> if it actually helps though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mmm ok, food for thought. Maybe I will re-visit the dump and load again.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Clemens" <blake.clemens@...> wrote:
>
> We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blake Clemens
>
> IT Systems Engineer
>
> Delmarva Millwork Corporation
>
> (800) 360-2364 x132
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of michael.hutcheson@...
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite
> the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
>
> HP Proliant ML 370G5
> Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> 8 GB RAM
> Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
>
> Vantage 8.03.406
> Progress 10.1B SP3
>
> This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database
> was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
>
> So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I
> did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> if it actually helps though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
What exactly do you mean by spindles?

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
> slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
> you have enough juice.
>
> I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
> separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.
>
> Just my 2cents
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> > older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> > do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> > scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> > database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> > performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> > process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> > our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> > hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> > would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> > online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Blake Clemens
> >
> > IT Systems Engineer
> >
> > Delmarva Millwork Corporation
> >
> > (800) 360-2364 x132
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of michael.hutcheson@...
> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
> >
> >
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> > Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite
> > the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
> >
> > HP Proliant ML 370G5
> > Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> > 8 GB RAM
> > Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
> >
> > Vantage 8.03.406
> > Progress 10.1B SP3
> >
> > This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database
> > was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
> >
> > So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I
> > did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> > to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> > if it actually helps though.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
we are using RAID 10, with two separate drives - one for the os and the other for Vantage if that helps.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
> slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
> you have enough juice.
>
> I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
> separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.
>
> Just my 2cents
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> > older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> > do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> > scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> > database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> > performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> > process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> > our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> > hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> > would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> > online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Blake Clemens
> >
> > IT Systems Engineer
> >
> > Delmarva Millwork Corporation
> >
> > (800) 360-2364 x132
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of michael.hutcheson@...
> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
> >
> >
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> > Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just bite
> > the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
> >
> > HP Proliant ML 370G5
> > Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> > 8 GB RAM
> > Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
> >
> > Vantage 8.03.406
> > Progress 10.1B SP3
> >
> > This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the database
> > was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
> >
> > So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases? I
> > did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> > to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> > if it actually helps though.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
How many users do you have?

Spindles = drives.

Could you explain your raid setup a bit better? How many drives are in your
RAID 10 for the DB? (I'm assuming you have separate arrays for the DB and
the OS and not just one array that's been partitioned.)

Either way, your OS should be fine with a RAID 1 unless you just feel you
need the added redundancy. Are you using direct attached storage or do you
have a SAN or other networked setup?

If you're using direct storage, I would dedicate 2 drives to the OS and
everything else to the DB. If you can get the two arrays running on separate
controllers, even better. How many drives do you have available in all? Do
you have room to add any more? Are you virtualized?

I would suggest at least 6 spindles for the DB, but more is always better.
If you're using SSD you can probably get by with 4.

Start perfmon and monitor your disk queue length. If it's high, your drives
are definitely holding you back.

Have you gone through the performance tuning guide from Epicor? It's
actually quite good. Pay special attention to the information about the
block sizes for your DB and matching them to your array. It can be a pain to
change them if they don't match already, but it will make a very substantial
difference. In a nutshell, use a 64k strip with 64k partition offset and 8k
block size for progress. Though you really should read the guide to get the
full story. (Here's a link that covers raid/partition setup in a bit more
depth.
http://www.kendalvandyke.com/2009/02/disk-performance-hands-on-part-2-raid.html)
If this stuff isn't setup right, it's probably the single biggest
thing
you can do to improve your performance.

Also, check your RAM usage and the BufferHit ratio for your DB. If
BufferHits are too low, (below 95% or so) tell progress to use more ram.
Keep upping the ram usage until your BufferHits stop going up. If you run
out of physical memory, add more and keep going. The guide goes into this in
much greater detail.





On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:39 AM, michael.hutcheson@... <
michael.hutcheson@...> wrote:

>
>
> we are using RAID 10, with two separate drives - one for the os and the
> other for Vantage if that helps.
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
> >
> > How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
> > slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
> > you have enough juice.
> >
> > I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
> > separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.
> >
> > Just my 2cents
> >
> >
> > *Jose C Gomez*
> > *Software Engineer*
> > *
> > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > E: jose@...
>
> > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> >
> > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@...>wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> > > older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> > > do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> > > scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> > > database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> > > performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> > > process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> > > our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> > > hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> > > would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> > > online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Blake Clemens
> > >
> > > IT Systems Engineer
> > >
> > > Delmarva Millwork Corporation
> > >
> > > (800) 360-2364 x132
> > >
> > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of michael.hutcheson@...
>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> > > Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just
> bite
> > > the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
> > >
> > > HP Proliant ML 370G5
> > > Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> > > 8 GB RAM
> > > Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
> > >
> > > Vantage 8.03.406
> > > Progress 10.1B SP3
> > >
> > > This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the
> database
> > > was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
> > >
> > > So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases?
> I
> > > did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> > > to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> > > if it actually helps though.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, we have one Smart Array P800 controller. This has two arrays:

- SAS Array A RAID 1+0 that consists of 2 x 10k 1 port serial SCSI 146 GB drives. This is where the OS is stored

- SAS Array B RAID 1+0 that consists of 6 x 10k 1 port serial SCSI 146 GB drives. This is where Vantage and Progress are stored

I have already gone through the performance tuning gudie from Epicor and support have webex'd on numerous times.

Would having just one Smart Array controller cause a bottleneck?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Regards,

Michael

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> How many users do you have?
>
> Spindles = drives.
>
> Could you explain your raid setup a bit better? How many drives are in your
> RAID 10 for the DB? (I'm assuming you have separate arrays for the DB and
> the OS and not just one array that's been partitioned.)
>
> Either way, your OS should be fine with a RAID 1 unless you just feel you
> need the added redundancy. Are you using direct attached storage or do you
> have a SAN or other networked setup?
>
> If you're using direct storage, I would dedicate 2 drives to the OS and
> everything else to the DB. If you can get the two arrays running on separate
> controllers, even better. How many drives do you have available in all? Do
> you have room to add any more? Are you virtualized?
>
> I would suggest at least 6 spindles for the DB, but more is always better.
> If you're using SSD you can probably get by with 4.
>
> Start perfmon and monitor your disk queue length. If it's high, your drives
> are definitely holding you back.
>
> Have you gone through the performance tuning guide from Epicor? It's
> actually quite good. Pay special attention to the information about the
> block sizes for your DB and matching them to your array. It can be a pain to
> change them if they don't match already, but it will make a very substantial
> difference. In a nutshell, use a 64k strip with 64k partition offset and 8k
> block size for progress. Though you really should read the guide to get the
> full story. (Here's a link that covers raid/partition setup in a bit more
> depth.
> http://www.kendalvandyke.com/2009/02/disk-performance-hands-on-part-2-raid.html)
> If this stuff isn't setup right, it's probably the single biggest
> thing
> you can do to improve your performance.
>
> Also, check your RAM usage and the BufferHit ratio for your DB. If
> BufferHits are too low, (below 95% or so) tell progress to use more ram.
> Keep upping the ram usage until your BufferHits stop going up. If you run
> out of physical memory, add more and keep going. The guide goes into this in
> much greater detail.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:39 AM, michael.hutcheson@... <
> michael.hutcheson@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > we are using RAID 10, with two separate drives - one for the os and the
> > other for Vantage if that helps.
> >
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > >
> > > How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
> > > slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
> > > you have enough juice.
> > >
> > > I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
> > > separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.
> > >
> > > Just my 2cents
> > >
> > >
> > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > *Software Engineer*
> > > *
> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > E: jose@
> >
> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > >
> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> > > > older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> > > > do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> > > > scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> > > > database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> > > > performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> > > > process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> > > > our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> > > > hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> > > > would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> > > > online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Blake Clemens
> > > >
> > > > IT Systems Engineer
> > > >
> > > > Delmarva Millwork Corporation
> > > >
> > > > (800) 360-2364 x132
> > > >
> > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > > Of michael.hutcheson@
> >
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey folks,
> > > >
> > > > I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> > > > Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just
> > bite
> > > > the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
> > > >
> > > > HP Proliant ML 370G5
> > > > Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> > > > 8 GB RAM
> > > > Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
> > > >
> > > > Vantage 8.03.406
> > > > Progress 10.1B SP3
> > > >
> > > > This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the
> > database
> > > > was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
> > > >
> > > > So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases?
> > I
> > > > did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> > > > to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> > > > if it actually helps though.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Also, I added some counters to the perfmon program:
◦System\Processor Queue Length
◦Memory\Pages Input/Sec
◦PhysicalDisk\Current Disk Queue Length\
◦Network Interface\Output Queue Length\

All seem to be close to zero except Memory\Pages Input/Sec - this is constantly spiking, even staying at 100 for a while. A quick look on promon shows 98% buffer hits, 305mb BI size, write by APW 81%, and 6 APW's.

Is is worth truncating the bi? Should I reduce the number of APW's?

Just to add a bit more of the database properties:

Blocks in DB buffer: 160000
Hash table entries: 0
lock table entires: 409600
Max users: 68
Max server: 23
APW's to start:6
Before image writer auto startup enabled 25 buffers \ 3 bi threashold
Spin lock retries: 50000


is there anything I could be changing? The server has 8gb, Intel Xeon 2.8Ghz with 8 cores

Regards,

Michael

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "michael.hutcheson@..." <michael.hutcheson@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, we have one Smart Array P800 controller. This has two arrays:
>
> - SAS Array A RAID 1+0 that consists of 2 x 10k 1 port serial SCSI 146 GB drives. This is where the OS is stored
>
> - SAS Array B RAID 1+0 that consists of 6 x 10k 1 port serial SCSI 146 GB drives. This is where Vantage and Progress are stored
>
> I have already gone through the performance tuning gudie from Epicor and support have webex'd on numerous times.
>
> Would having just one Smart Array controller cause a bottleneck?
>
> Thanks for all the help so far.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@> wrote:
> >
> > How many users do you have?
> >
> > Spindles = drives.
> >
> > Could you explain your raid setup a bit better? How many drives are in your
> > RAID 10 for the DB? (I'm assuming you have separate arrays for the DB and
> > the OS and not just one array that's been partitioned.)
> >
> > Either way, your OS should be fine with a RAID 1 unless you just feel you
> > need the added redundancy. Are you using direct attached storage or do you
> > have a SAN or other networked setup?
> >
> > If you're using direct storage, I would dedicate 2 drives to the OS and
> > everything else to the DB. If you can get the two arrays running on separate
> > controllers, even better. How many drives do you have available in all? Do
> > you have room to add any more? Are you virtualized?
> >
> > I would suggest at least 6 spindles for the DB, but more is always better.
> > If you're using SSD you can probably get by with 4.
> >
> > Start perfmon and monitor your disk queue length. If it's high, your drives
> > are definitely holding you back.
> >
> > Have you gone through the performance tuning guide from Epicor? It's
> > actually quite good. Pay special attention to the information about the
> > block sizes for your DB and matching them to your array. It can be a pain to
> > change them if they don't match already, but it will make a very substantial
> > difference. In a nutshell, use a 64k strip with 64k partition offset and 8k
> > block size for progress. Though you really should read the guide to get the
> > full story. (Here's a link that covers raid/partition setup in a bit more
> > depth.
> > http://www.kendalvandyke.com/2009/02/disk-performance-hands-on-part-2-raid.html)
> > If this stuff isn't setup right, it's probably the single biggest
> > thing
> > you can do to improve your performance.
> >
> > Also, check your RAM usage and the BufferHit ratio for your DB. If
> > BufferHits are too low, (below 95% or so) tell progress to use more ram.
> > Keep upping the ram usage until your BufferHits stop going up. If you run
> > out of physical memory, add more and keep going. The guide goes into this in
> > much greater detail.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:39 AM, michael.hutcheson@ <
> > michael.hutcheson@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > we are using RAID 10, with two separate drives - one for the os and the
> > > other for Vantage if that helps.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How many spindles do you have? What's your Drive setup like? 90% of the
> > > > slowness of Vantage comes from bad Drive Setup. It seems to me
> > > > you have enough juice.
> > > >
> > > > I'd say replace your drives with SSD's raid 10 and make sure the DB has
> > > > separate spindles than the OS, should see a significant improvement.
> > > >
> > > > Just my 2cents
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > *
> > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > E: jose@
> > >
> > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > >
> > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Blake Clemens <blake.clemens@>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We have almost the exact same setup except our server is two years
> > > > > older. Basically the same database size and only 4GB or RAM. I'd say
> > > > > do the Dump & Load before buying a new server. If the database needs
> > > > > scrubbing then you'll have this same issue on a new server. Once the
> > > > > database has gone through the Dump & Load then re-evaluate your Vantage
> > > > > performance. As to why it takes you 3 days to perform the Dump & Load
> > > > > process is beyond me. Like I said we have basically the same system and
> > > > > our Dump & Load process takes 12-15 hours. I start it on a Friday after
> > > > > hours using Go To My PC and by Sunday morning its back online. If I
> > > > > would stay at work and work on it continuously then I'd have it back
> > > > > online by Saturday afternoon. We run Vantage 8.03.408B.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Blake Clemens
> > > > >
> > > > > IT Systems Engineer
> > > > >
> > > > > Delmarva Millwork Corporation
> > > > >
> > > > > (800) 360-2364 x132
> > > > >
> > > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > Of michael.hutcheson@
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> > > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Vantage] Do I need a new server
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance of
> > > > > Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just
> > > bite
> > > > > the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
> > > > >
> > > > > HP Proliant ML 370G5
> > > > > Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> > > > > 8 GB RAM
> > > > > Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
> > > > >
> > > > > Vantage 8.03.406
> > > > > Progress 10.1B SP3
> > > > >
> > > > > This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the
> > > database
> > > > > was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
> > > > >
> > > > > So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples databases?
> > > I
> > > > > did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it took three days
> > > > > to run from start to finish so that would have to wait until a holiday,
> > > > > if it actually helps though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
We had a consultant come on site recently to tune our system in advance
of a final decision on a new disk subsystem.

A few points:

1. our use of buffer space -B for the database was adjusted which
resulted in reducing the disk read rate from 5k to 10k/sec on avg to
less than 800 to 1000/sec most of the time.
2. dump and load done. However, what was differrent the while the
database was dumped and before loading, the database storage areas were
split up and changed from type 1 to type 2. After this change, the disk
read rate dropped to less than 100 most of the time.
3. protop was installed. This is free and I highly recommend it. It
gives great insights into what is going on in your Progress database. I
have already identified several processes that were creating very high
IOPS levels.
4. update statistics was done to better optimize SQL queries which again
made a huge difference to query performance.

There's a lot that can be done before buying hardware which will also
ensure that you don't overbuy.

John A. Hatcher
Manager of IS
Versa Products Co., Inc.
(201) 843-2400 x4148
(201) 843-2931 fax



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Is Windows actually recognizing the 8GB of system RAM? Server 2003 R2 32
bit Standard has a 4GB limit while the Enterprise and Datacenter
editions allow for more provided you have PAE enabled.

Memory Limits for Windows Releases
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#phys\
ical_memory_limits_windows_server_2003_r2>

Just a thought since I noticed you said something about memory pages
spiking in a later post.


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "michael.hutcheson@..."
<michael.hutcheson@...> wrote:
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I know its the number one complaint from end users, but our instance
of Vantage does seem to be slowing down. I wondering if we should just
bite the bullet and buy a new server. Here is the current spec:
>
> HP Proliant ML 370G5
> Windows Server 2003 R2 32 bit
> 8 GB RAM
> Xeon 2.8 Ghz processor
>
> Vantage 8.03.406
> Progress 10.1B SP3
>
> This server has been used since implementation (2007), when the
database was only 5GB in size - its now 25GB.
>
> So would it be worth upgrading? How large are other peoples
databases? I did consider a dump and load, however, the last time it
took three days to run from start to finish so that would have to wait
until a holiday, if it actually helps though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's not just windows but OpenEdge that is limiting memory use. It is
my understanding that you need to be on 10.2 or higher and a version of
windows that supports 64bit to make use of anything beyond 4Gb.

John A. Hatcher
Manager of IS
Versa Products Co., Inc.
(201) 843-2400 x4148
(201) 843-2931 fax



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In addition you have to be on 9.05 or higher to be able to get true multi core CPU support.

"Zac" Jason Woodward
Network Administrator
Intermountain Electronics, Inc.
O: 877-544-2291
M: 435-820-6515
F: 435-637-9601
www.ie-corp.com

Creating customer confidence through extraordinary service and experienced industry experts.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hatcher, John
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Do I need a new server



It's not just windows but OpenEdge that is limiting memory use. It is
my understanding that you need to be on 10.2 or higher and a version of
windows that supports 64bit to make use of anything beyond 4Gb.

John A. Hatcher
Manager of IS
Versa Products Co., Inc.
(201) 843-2400 x4148
(201) 843-2931 fax


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, I reduced the APW to 2 and the lock table entries to 8192 (which was the default). With regards to the # of blocks in DB buffer - we are using standard 4 blocks, so the current setting of 160000 translates to 655mb. I tried to increase this to 480000 which translates to 1.9GB but the the app server would not start. (The server has 8GB and is the Enterprise edition of Server 03 so all 8GB is recognized). The following was recorded in the logs:

-- Unable to attach shared memory Global\sharemem.e.epicor.mfgsys803.db.mfgsys.0, error 0. (1720)

I spoke with Epicor who said a bug is present in OpenEdge 10.1B that will not allow the value to go above a certain point - however they did not know what point. Using trial and error, it appears the value cannot go above 180000 which translates to 747 mb. We are using the latest SP3 and hotfix 33 for OpenEdge and Epicor do not have an answer.

Where do I go from here? Our database is 23GB in size and only 655mb is in RAM.

Regards,

Michael


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Zac Jason Woodward <zac@...> wrote:
>
> In addition you have to be on 9.05 or higher to be able to get true multi core CPU support.
>
> "Zac" Jason Woodward
> Network Administrator
> Intermountain Electronics, Inc.
> O: 877-544-2291
> M: 435-820-6515
> F: 435-637-9601
> www.ie-corp.com
>
> Creating customer confidence through extraordinary service and experienced industry experts.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hatcher, John
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:42 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Do I need a new server
>
>
>
> It's not just windows but OpenEdge that is limiting memory use. It is
> my understanding that you need to be on 10.2 or higher and a version of
> windows that supports 64bit to make use of anything beyond 4Gb.
>
> John A. Hatcher
> Manager of IS
> Versa Products Co., Inc.
> (201) 843-2400 x4148
> (201) 843-2931 fax
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
On 5-4-2011 5:15, michael.hutcheson@... wrote:
> The server has 8GB and is the Enterprise edition of Server 03 so all 8GB is recognized

The operating system may recognize all of your memory, but your OpenEdge
processes are limited to 2 GB addressing space. That's the limit for
32-bit programs,
regardless of the version of the operating system.

AppServers use shared memory to connect to the databases. As the appservers
processes can consume up to 1 GB of RAM, this leaves about 1 GB for shared
memory.

To go beyond that, you need a 64-bit native OpenEdge on a 64-bit native
operating system.

For some Vantage 8 versions, this is available for Unix and Linux only,
using
OpenEdge 10.1C. For Epicor 9.05, this is available for Windows too, using
OpenEdge 10.2A.

Pim