[Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up

Forward thinking in Hardware sizing is a must (especially given our current
operating system vendor.) In five years, at a current rate of 115mb a year,
the database size will be about a gig, but what matters is the rate. Are
you planning on upsizing to a new facility? Will new server costs be
factored into a facilities upgrade?

For smaller businesses such as our own (24 concurrent users >150mb a year),
with not any immediate plans to do any drastic upsizing, there is still a
need to buy more than we need because of the higher demand software future
will put on the Server. If you look at NT, though, it's been around for 6
years and vantage is still designed to run on it. Support for NT 4.0 will
begin to be phased out starting Jan. 1, 2003. A year later, on Jan. 1, 2004,
hot fixes will no longer be available, according to ComputerWorld -
"Microsoft sets support cutoff dates for Windows NT Server 4.0" By CAROL
SLIWA DEC 10, 2001.

So assume you install 2000 server, and stay on that OS for the remainder of
the server's life. Assume this is a vantage only server.

From vantage 3 to 5.1, I've seen an increase in memory and cpu requirements
on the client side, though the progress CPU requirements haven't increased a
whole lot. I find that some queries run even faster in 5.1 than they do in
3. With each upgrade, your the number of DB transactions will probably
increase with the addition of functionality, though probably not in Epic
proportions...

Our PII-450 vantage server, 640mb RAM, with No Raid is meeting our needs in
a vantage 3.1 24 user database, plus hosting exchange. It does get bogged
down at times, but not so much that operations are truly hindered. We are
planning on getting a mid-range server with a 1+ ghz processor (with room
for a second processor), a raid 10 controller (for redundancy and
hot-swapability as well as performance), and somewhere between 640-1024 megs
of ram. We'll probably give it and our file server a Gigabit connection to
our switch. (still waiting to see the quote from our server guy).

So if this is a vantage only server, get more than what you currently need,
but be realistic in your oversizing budget.

Of course, anyone planning on converting to a Progress SQL database, or
another sql db package should get a box like JLO's. However, I don't believe
Epicor plans on converting vantage to SQL.

Lord help us if they do.

Thaddeus Jacobs
Information Solutions Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:40 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Check out your vantage.st file .... I'm very rusty on this little beast but
as I recollect your "B1" file is the index and the "D1" file is the data.
Putting each on a different hard drive should improve speed.

So:

C: = Op system plus Progress dir plus Vantage dir for 'Code"

D: = B1 file

E: = D1 file

Does this make sense for small DB's ??? I would expect a server setup to
be good for about 4-5 years ... what will your business look like then ???
I generally figure that if a new server / desktop is twice as fast as I
need in the first year ... it will be "Just fine" in the second year ... a
"Bit" slow in the third year ... a "Dog" in the forth year ... and a still
functioning "Boat Anchor" in the fifth year. Of course, your CFO / owners
generally believe that "Boat Anchor's" are still "Functioning". :-)

Ok, having said that with exceptionally little confidence in my voice would
one of the "up to date/current" progress "Experts" like to chime in with a
little more accurate description ? ( I'm feeling very 'Stupid' on this
topic today ... )

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Todd,
Interesting thing you said about the putting your indexes on their own drive
set. Does this gain much performance or is it just nice to have? Do you
know where I might find instructions for such a beast?
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT MAnager
K-T Corporation



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> > >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> > >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> > >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> > >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> > >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> > >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> > >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
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>
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--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> > >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=213858.2097561.3556641.1829184/D=egroupmai
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=763352/rand=769652443>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I'm very partial to the IBM Netfinity Line of servers. I have also noticed
that Dell is currently slashing the price on their servers. I've never
owned a Dell server so I can't say how good they are. I have an HP6000
right now that I really like but until this HP/Compaq deal is done and we
know what Server lines are going to be killed, I think I would stay away
from both of those. They say one thing one day and change their minds the
next. Don't even think Gateway. Take a look on Ebay, you can get some
great deals there. If anything, you'll learn about what configs are out
there for what machines.
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation



-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Hello Everyone,

I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.

Thanks,
--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Can you run Win2K Server on HP6000?

Mike Tonoyan / All American Products Co.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard, Jeremy" <jleonard@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


> I'm very partial to the IBM Netfinity Line of servers. I have also noticed
> that Dell is currently slashing the price on their servers. I've never
> owned a Dell server so I can't say how good they are. I have an HP6000
> right now that I really like but until this HP/Compaq deal is done and we
> know what Server lines are going to be killed, I think I would stay away
> from both of those. They say one thing one day and change their minds the
> next. Don't even think Gateway. Take a look on Ebay, you can get some
> great deals there. If anything, you'll learn about what configs are out
> there for what machines.
> Thanks
> Jeremy Leonard
> IT Manager
> K-T Corporation
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to
enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Yes, we have Windows 2000 Advanced Server installed. Windows 2000 Standard
Server will run but will only use 4 of the Xeon Processors and the other 2
will set dead.

There is also a memory limit to Windows 2000 Standard server. I think its
4Gb or 6GB, I dont remember but we have 8GB.
Runs Great,
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Can you run Win2K Server on HP6000?

Mike Tonoyan / All American Products Co.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard, Jeremy" <jleonard@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


> I'm very partial to the IBM Netfinity Line of servers. I have also
noticed
> that Dell is currently slashing the price on their servers. I've never
> owned a Dell server so I can't say how good they are. I have an HP6000
> right now that I really like but until this HP/Compaq deal is done and we
> know what Server lines are going to be killed, I think I would stay away
> from both of those. They say one thing one day and change their minds the
> next. Don't even think Gateway. Take a look on Ebay, you can get some
> great deals there. If anything, you'll learn about what configs are out
> there for what machines.
> Thanks
> Jeremy Leonard
> IT Manager
> K-T Corporation
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to
enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
How many Vantage users do you have?
What is the size of your database?
What is your database growth rate per month?
Will you be running anything else on this server?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Hello Everyone,

I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.

Thanks,
--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Patrick,

We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.

Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.

Thanks
Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> How many Vantage users do you have?
> What is the size of your database?
> What is your database growth rate per month?
> Will you be running anything else on this server?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and RAM
are very affordable for requirements of your size.
My random thoughts for what they are worth:
1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
(don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then having
enough RAM to keep it there.)
1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for less
than $500)
redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a thread
all by it's self.

Patrick

Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
from several, it's research

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.

Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.

Thanks
Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> How many Vantage users do you have?
> What is the size of your database?
> What is your database growth rate per month?
> Will you be running anything else on this server?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For progress-only access to the database, it's most likely that disk is the
main bottleneck. However, when using ODBC, and even some complex progress
queries on a frequent basis, the demand on the processor increases.

Though the hard drive is the bottleneck in most cases, try to get as much
server you can (including processor), as to accomodate for future upgrades
and expansion, and to leave room for any other processor intensive tasks
that may end up being delegated to your server, and to accomodate for the
ever rising CPU demand associated with operating system upgrade.

For 13 users, even the servers on the cheaper end of the spectrum would
suffice for now. Just remember the more server you buy now, the longer
before you have to buy another one.

Thaddeus Jacobs
Information Solutions Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:22 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and RAM
are very affordable for requirements of your size.
My random thoughts for what they are worth:
1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
(don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then having
enough RAM to keep it there.)
1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for less
than $500)
redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a thread
all by it's self.

Patrick

Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
from several, it's research

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.

Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.

Thanks
Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> How many Vantage users do you have?
> What is the size of your database?
> What is your database growth rate per month?
> Will you be running anything else on this server?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>



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l/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/rand=320936156>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Raid 1 will work fine, but I think RAID 10 is now the preferred
configuration for a Progress Database. Raid 10 is faster and you can add
more drives later but you pay for it. You loose 50% of your drive space to
raid. The only other drawback is that you have to have a RAID card that
supports RAID 10. There are many that do not.
Thanks
Jeremy


-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I want an underground tunnel....

I'm sure it would be called the Nerdcave....


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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83:HM/A=1000239/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1023298292%3eM=22
6014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/R=1>


<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/rand=320936156>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Underground tunnel ... Hmmmm, you can store your backup tapes next to your
wine cellar.

In the case of a disaster you can just go down to the tunnel, open a bottle
of well aged Cabernet Sauvignon, and say to heck with it all ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:23 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I want an underground tunnel....

I'm sure it would be called the Nerdcave....


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aw darn, *hiccup*, I have to go down and get another backup *hiccup* tape ;)


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Underground tunnel ... Hmmmm, you can store your backup tapes next to your
wine cellar.

In the case of a disaster you can just go down to the tunnel, open a bottle
of well aged Cabernet Sauvignon, and say to heck with it all ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:23 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I want an underground tunnel....

I'm sure it would be called the Nerdcave....


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<
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l/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/rand=320936156>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.




I agree with everything but I go with 2 raid controllers as well. Had my old unix raid toast a card (not the drives) and was dead in the water for a few days.

2 cents


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Todd,
Interesting thing you said about the putting your indexes on their own drive
set. Does this gain much performance or is it just nice to have? Do you
know where I might find instructions for such a beast?
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT MAnager
K-T Corporation



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



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>
83:HM/A=1000239/R=0/*
http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1023298292%3eM=22
<http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1023298292%3eM=22>
6014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/R=1>


<
http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
>
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/rand=320936156>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I'm not sure that the benefits of having indexes on a seperate drive would
be fully realized in a 13 user 115mb/year database. However, it probably
wouldn't hurt....

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:24 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<
http://rd.yahoo.com/M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
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>
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http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1023298292%3eM=22
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<
http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmai
>
l/S=1705007183:HM/A=1000239/rand=320936156>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
What about a 50 user database?


-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:49 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I'm not sure that the benefits of having indexes on a seperate drive would
be fully realized in a 13 user 115mb/year database. However, it probably
wouldn't hurt....

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:24 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> <
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/