15% of the "purchase price" or 15% of the "current price" for your modules? I believe that unless you specifically negotiate a "freeze" on the base price the 15% applies to the standard language is for it to be the current price, each year. Meaning if you got some steep discounts ("trade-in" allowance on other software, etc...) the maintenance cost may be higher than expected from simply calculating 15% of what you paid. Inflation in the list price will also tend to raise the maintenance annually. But I agree, this has been the same with every major system I've managed and is pretty standard. Also negotiable but mainly only in the pre-purchase phase where you have the most leverage. Although the sales person will not mention maintenance much it is just something that has to be assumed and put in the on-going operating cost calculations for any system payback analysis. Be glad there is no clause in the agreement requiring maintenance in order to keep using the software as some vendors have tried to do (complete with timebombs and new license keys each year linked to an expire date).
On the MS side we don't do "software assurance" and instead opt for living with the current version for at least 4 years at which time the total cost saved exceeds total re-buy. We don't use 90% of the features in Office (WordPad is prefectly adequate for anything we use Word for) so the latest features are no incentive to keep up to the newest version.
-Todd C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:46 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Holding out on support agreement
Check your contract, but it is usually in the neighborhood of 15% of
purchase price. It'll make you fall over if you aren't expecting
it--sometimes when you are! If it is any comfort, that is the standard rate
for almost all major software packages these days, but often you can
negotiate a lower rate at the time of purchase and make it stick for up to
five years.
Course, with Microsoft you have to buy all new software every time and it is
usually more than the last version.
Lydia
-----Original Message-----
From: bbelzer42 [mailto:bbelzer@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:04 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Holding out on support agreement
How much is the renewal of the service agreement? Ours isn't quite up
yet.
Thanks,
Ben
On the MS side we don't do "software assurance" and instead opt for living with the current version for at least 4 years at which time the total cost saved exceeds total re-buy. We don't use 90% of the features in Office (WordPad is prefectly adequate for anything we use Word for) so the latest features are no incentive to keep up to the newest version.
-Todd C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:46 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Holding out on support agreement
Check your contract, but it is usually in the neighborhood of 15% of
purchase price. It'll make you fall over if you aren't expecting
it--sometimes when you are! If it is any comfort, that is the standard rate
for almost all major software packages these days, but often you can
negotiate a lower rate at the time of purchase and make it stick for up to
five years.
Course, with Microsoft you have to buy all new software every time and it is
usually more than the last version.
Lydia
-----Original Message-----
From: bbelzer42 [mailto:bbelzer@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:04 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Holding out on support agreement
How much is the renewal of the service agreement? Ours isn't quite up
yet.
Thanks,
Ben
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Coffman <lcoffman@c...> wrote:
> A lot of what drives us in the upgrade path is customer demand. We are
> AS9100 certified, and that creates demand as well. Customers want us to
> capture information (metrics)AND share it with them. We teetered on the
> edge of being too small to deal with those items for a while, now we are
> growing and had better keep up while we can.
>
> When we entered the "Lean Manufacturing" area, a set of goals and
> expectations was created for the entire company as well as individual
> departments. Excel spreadsheets can't capture all of the info
anymore. We
> have become not just manufacturerers, but data farmers as well.
When one of
> the "big" companies wants us to comply with their requests or drop
off of
> their vendor list, we can only comply--or die. Vantage, and its
upgrades,
> is what puts us in the place where we can comply. (This could easily
be ANY
> OTHER SOFTWARE THE COMPANY CHOOSES TO USE.)
>
> Yep, sometimes patches suck, and so does the extra work and training to
> upgrade. But having to plan and conduct training is part of what
keeps me
> aware of what is going on in every department. If nothing else I
learn how
> they are "working around" the real way Vantage is meant to be.
Training also
> brings every person who uses the software into a safe environment to
discuss
> what works for them and what doesn't, what they need, what they wish
for, in
> the software.
>
> My two bits (which is actually a quarter!)
> Lydia
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gavin Davidson [mailto:gavinjd68@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:20 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Holding out on support agreement
>
>
> If you are on this list presumbaly your company has
> decided that Vantage / Vista is the tool that they you
> are to use to run your business.
>
> The plain fact is that if you are smart your software
> implementation should not stop - once you have
> installed and implemented Vantage you should really
> create a business development team that meets at least
> once a month to discuss ways to improve your business.
>
> This team should be responsible for gathering
> information from users, customers and vendors,
> compiling the data and then make recommendations on
> how to further improve the business. Software is only
> one part of this - but it is the vehicle to help drive
> your business forward.
>
> If you don't do this, you can be damn sure your
> competition is.
>
> One last thought. How many of you have seen your
> companies business plan? Do they have one? While it
> probably contains some sensitive information theres no
> reason why some of it cant be shared with virtually
> the whole company - its all part of the same process.
>
> Continuous improvement doesn't only apply to the shop
> floor...
>
> Gavin
>
> > plans to stand still? The only way I could see to
> > stop maintenance would be if I was certain right now
> > that Vantage 8.0 will be the wrong system and
> > prepared to bank away the support costs towards a
> > new system in a few years.
> >
> > If cash flow is tight then Epicor, and your CAM,
> > have every incentive to keep you "in the fold" - not
> > the least of which is the possibility to sell add-on
> > modules - and to preserve the revenue stream
> > (something investors look at carefully). Talk to
> > them so you can weigh all your options.
> >
> > -Todd C.
> > PS - I no longer have any investment position in
> > EPIC.
> >
> >
> >
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
_____
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