OT - Open Letter to Vantage

system · March 25, 2004, 2:45pm

Make sure you set up the grill and deep-fryer as a workcenter when trying to calculate burden rates. You'll be doomed if you try use your inexpensive labor pool as the cost driver. But that's really only a problem if you are in a standard cost environment.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:30 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Then again, all our tech jobs could be farmed out to India by then and we
can all move into the burger manufacturing sector. How does Vantage handle
issuing mustard to a burger assembly, and are fries a sub assembly or a
material.

Shirley

_____

From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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system · March 25, 2004, 2:45pm

Yes Todd, I'm glad you brought that up. There won't be a Progress
Client on the desktop with Sonoma. They did mention something to the
effect that those who had Provision may still be able to modify & use
Report Builder reports, but it sounded kind of tricky and unproven.
To be honest I kind of zoned out on those details since we don't have
Provision and aren't in that big of a hurt with the loss of Report
Builder.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> In the Help-About... for RB it states that "Report Builder is a
derivative work of R&R Report Writer (R) by Concentric Data Systems,
Inc.". I did a search once and it appears that the original products
has gone on to several changes that have diverged from RB and the
owner company has changed hands several times. I fear it is now an
orphan.
>
> The big issue with running RB and the filter problem with Progress
10 and Sonoma is that there is little or no Progress code being run
on the client. The client side is just a viewer for processing being
done on the server. All that .Net stuff and the requirement to have
XP in order for the client side to run. Thus without the Progress
components running on the client it can't prompt for filter changes.
There may be a way to run Progress stuff on the client if you have
Progress development tools but for mere mortals like me this is out
of reach. So the root of the problem for Progress corp is the
migration to this small-client .Net via OpenEdge sort of architecture
that moves away from RB being able to work.
>
> At least that was my understanding from the local meeting last week.
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:53 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
> terminal condition of Report Builder.
>
> I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
> it can access current Progress databases.
>
> I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party,
which
> makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.
>
> Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?
>
> How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields
or
> indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the
number
> of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
> structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
> indexes.
>
> Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
> will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB
Engine
> that runs the report.
>
> But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
> changes, RB is sunk without modification.
>
> It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
> Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
> Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.
>
> Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
> Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs
within
> a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
> maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.
>
> Lonnie
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 2:54pm

Ron - That's a peculiar image you just generated in my head -

Gee thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron LaPean [mailto:rlapean@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:34 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Shirley---
Vantage would backflush the mustard at the time it is eaten.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:30 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Then again, all our tech jobs could be farmed out to India by then and we
can all move into the burger manufacturing sector. How does Vantage handle
issuing mustard to a burger assembly, and are fries a sub assembly or a
material.

Shirley

_____

From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> > >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

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Tracking #: 1BBD43987AA8FD4094843ABEDCEBC57E3CC2C5D1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages> >
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links> >

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

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system · March 25, 2004, 2:55pm

Huh? Those with ProVision may STILL develop with RB????

Where again did you hear that? Please oh please let this be true....

Lonnie

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Stenglein" <bstenglein@c...>
wrote:

> Yes Todd, I'm glad you brought that up. There won't be a Progress
> Client on the desktop with Sonoma. They did mention something to

the

> effect that those who had Provision may still be able to modify &

use

> Report Builder reports, but it sounded kind of tricky and

unproven.

> To be honest I kind of zoned out on those details since we don't

have

> Provision and aren't in that big of a hurt with the loss of Report
> Builder.
>
> Brian
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...>

wrote:

> > In the Help-About... for RB it states that "Report Builder is a
> derivative work of R&R Report Writer (R) by Concentric Data

Systems,

> Inc.". I did a search once and it appears that the original

products

> has gone on to several changes that have diverged from RB and the
> owner company has changed hands several times. I fear it is now an
> orphan.
> >
> > The big issue with running RB and the filter problem with

Progress

> 10 and Sonoma is that there is little or no Progress code being run
> on the client. The client side is just a viewer for processing

being

> done on the server. All that .Net stuff and the requirement to

have

> XP in order for the client side to run. Thus without the Progress
> components running on the client it can't prompt for filter

changes.

> There may be a way to run Progress stuff on the client if you have
> Progress development tools but for mere mortals like me this is out
> of reach. So the root of the problem for Progress corp is the
> migration to this small-client .Net via OpenEdge sort of

architecture

> that moves away from RB being able to work.
> >
> > At least that was my understanding from the local meeting last

week.

> > -Todd C.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:53 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
> >
> >
> > Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
> > terminal condition of Report Builder.
> >
> > I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long

as

> > it can access current Progress databases.
> >
> > I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party,
> which
> > makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data

directly.

> >
> > Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?
> >
> > How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables,

fields

> or
> > indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the
> number
> > of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
> > structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
> > indexes.
> >
> > Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic

filtering

> > will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB
> Engine
> > that runs the report.
> >
> > But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
> > changes, RB is sunk without modification.
> >
> > It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
> > Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
> > Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test

data.

> >
> > Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to

Progress

> > Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs
> within
> > a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
> > maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.
> >
> > Lonnie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 3:15pm

>The client side is just a viewer for processing being done on the server.

Hmm.. Maybe the server better have some good horsepower. Lots of users
sending report demands, that are all processed on the server? Plus - normal
processing - Plus - any Terminal server duties + Plus print serve + Plus
file serve. Think I might add a few K to the 12 I proposed earlier. Or
break things up into smaller server bites. I really don't like conditions
where a sudden high demand could flood you out. What if you get an "END of"
condition. (end of day, end of week, end of month, and everybody needs all
the heaviest reports by the 'END OF...'

Shirley

_____

From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Huh? Those with ProVision may STILL develop with RB????

Where again did you hear that? Please oh please let this be true....

Lonnie

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Stenglein" <bstenglein@c...>
wrote:

> Yes Todd, I'm glad you brought that up. There won't be a Progress
> Client on the desktop with Sonoma. They did mention something to

the

> effect that those who had Provision may still be able to modify &

use

> Report Builder reports, but it sounded kind of tricky and

unproven.

> To be honest I kind of zoned out on those details since we don't

have

> Provision and aren't in that big of a hurt with the loss of Report
> Builder.
>
> Brian
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...>

wrote:

> > In the Help-About... for RB it states that "Report Builder is a
> derivative work of R&R Report Writer (R) by Concentric Data

Systems,

> Inc.". I did a search once and it appears that the original

products

> has gone on to several changes that have diverged from RB and the
> owner company has changed hands several times. I fear it is now an
> orphan.
> >
> > The big issue with running RB and the filter problem with

Progress

> 10 and Sonoma is that there is little or no Progress code being run
> on the client. The client side is just a viewer for processing

being

> done on the server. All that .Net stuff and the requirement to

have

> XP in order for the client side to run. Thus without the Progress
> components running on the client it can't prompt for filter

changes.

> There may be a way to run Progress stuff on the client if you have
> Progress development tools but for mere mortals like me this is out
> of reach. So the root of the problem for Progress corp is the
> migration to this small-client .Net via OpenEdge sort of

architecture

> that moves away from RB being able to work.
> >
> > At least that was my understanding from the local meeting last

week.

> > -Todd C.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@c...]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:53 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
> >
> >
> > Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
> > terminal condition of Report Builder.
> >
> > I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long

as

> > it can access current Progress databases.
> >
> > I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party,
> which
> > makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data

directly.

> >
> > Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?
> >
> > How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables,

fields

> or
> > indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the
> number
> > of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
> > structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
> > indexes.
> >
> > Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic

filtering

> > will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB
> Engine
> > that runs the report.
> >
> > But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
> > changes, RB is sunk without modification.
> >
> > It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
> > Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
> > Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test

data.

> >
> > Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to

Progress

> > Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs
> within
> > a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
> > maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.
> >
> > Lonnie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: A882C14C4A79704F8B0883E83987B4D093616ECD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 3:25pm

I don't think Progress development tools would help to modify RB.
What language is RB written in? If Progress then maybe, but I
wouldn't bet the farm.

The option for a filter prompt is in a parameter sent to the RB
Engine. I realize that's ProRE.exe vs ProRB.exe, but I would think
both the development and runtime sides work the same. Who knows.

I don't grasp the "small-client .Net via OpenEdge" concept. I guess
I've been a database 4GL programmer for too long.

Lonnie

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> In the Help-About... for RB it states that "Report Builder is a
derivative work of R&R Report Writer (R) by Concentric Data Systems,
Inc.". I did a search once and it appears that the original products
has gone on to several changes that have diverged from RB and the
owner company has changed hands several times. I fear it is now an
orphan.
>
> The big issue with running RB and the filter problem with Progress
10 and Sonoma is that there is little or no Progress code being run
on the client. The client side is just a viewer for processing being
done on the server. All that .Net stuff and the requirement to have
XP in order for the client side to run. Thus without the Progress
components running on the client it can't prompt for filter changes.
There may be a way to run Progress stuff on the client if you have
Progress development tools but for mere mortals like me this is out
of reach. So the root of the problem for Progress corp is the
migration to this small-client .Net via OpenEdge sort of architecture
that moves away from RB being able to work.
>
> At least that was my understanding from the local meeting last week.
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:53 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
> terminal condition of Report Builder.
>
> I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
> it can access current Progress databases.
>
> I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party,
which
> makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.
>
> Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?
>
> How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields
or
> indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the
number
> of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
> structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
> indexes.
>
> Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
> will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB
Engine
> that runs the report.
>
> But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
> changes, RB is sunk without modification.
>
> It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
> Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
> Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.
>
> Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
> Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs
within
> a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
> maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.
>
> Lonnie
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 3:30pm

Fries would have to be given their own part number. It could be a
sub-assembly to a Value meal, but they can be purchased on their
own. The frozen potatoes would be a material, turned into to a fry,
the finished product, only after the salt is added.

Definately backflush the fixin's and condiments.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Graver" <shirleyg@R...>
wrote:

> Then again, all our tech jobs could be farmed out to India by then

and we

> can all move into the burger manufacturing sector. How does

Vantage handle

> issuing mustard to a burger assembly, and are fries a sub assembly

or a

> material.
>
> Shirley
>
> _____
>
> From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:53 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
> terminal condition of Report Builder.
>
> I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
> it can access current Progress databases.
>
> I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party,

which

> makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.
>
> Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?
>
> How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields

or

> indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the

number

> of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
> structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
> indexes.
>
> Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
> will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB

Engine

> that runs the report.
>
> But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
> changes, RB is sunk without modification.
>
> It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
> Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
> Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.
>
> Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
> Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs

within

> a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
> maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.
>
> Lonnie
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must have

> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service

> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 1BBD43987AA8FD4094843ABEDCEBC57E3CC2C5D1
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 27, 2004, 7:03pm

Bruce,

Not sure if you missed this point or not....but, Sonoma WILL
have the ability to be database independent. You could run
it on Oracle if you want. The .NET architecture, and the
fact that it is being fully developed in .NET, not just
ported, will mean database independence.....
Lorne Rogers

Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.

Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting

<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>

Add this card to your
<http://ariaconsulting.net/vcf/aria.vcf> OutlookT Contacts

Providing Enterprise Software Solutions to small, medium

and larger businesses/groups through World-Class Partners.

Servicing all of Western Canada.

<http://www.epicor.ca/> <http://www.ezijobz.com/>

<http://www.ebizzones.com/>
<http://evaluation.ariaconsulting.net/>

-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

>the terminal condition of Report Builder. <

I'm a new Vantage user so I haven't had time to get attached
to Report
Builder.
I have plenty of Progress opinions though & this is an area
where I
certainly get wound up easily.
Forgive me while I rant but I think this is a perfect
example of what is
wrong with being tied up with an embedded database.
When Progress says it's dumping Report Builder I suspect
Epicor has no
recourse except to "like it or lump it".
I'm sure that when Epicor started using Progress it was
pretty cool, but
now, IMHO it ain't.
Vantage strikes me as being dependant on 4GL and Progress to
the point
that it is limiting all of our options.
Sometimes I look at Vantage/Progress and it reminds me of
old Visual
FoxPro or Visual Fortran applications.
It's not that they are so bad, just a little "off" & out of
the main
stream.
It seems like it's always just enough so that a lot of
normally simple
tasks in more popular software become difficult or awkward
in these.

I think that Epicor might be as much of a victim here as we
are.
I get the feeling that Epicor is being held hostage by the
makers of
Crystal Reports too.
It must be tough to be a software developer and keep
jockeying around
with all of these suppliers.

I must say I really like the fact that Epicor is getting
their user
interface cleaned up and separated with the development of
Sonoma.
Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't most of the user interface
quirks in
Vantage a direct result of Progress?

Now wouldn't it be great if they created a DB independent
version of
Vantage next.
I'd like to be able to use the DB, programming tools and
reporting tools
of my choice?

I wonder if Epicor is strong enough to make a change of this
magnitude,
and one of their core products. Then what would it take to
coordinate
this with all of the existing customers. Wow! I can only
imagine how
extremely tough this would be to accomplish. I think it's
safe to say we
won't see anything like this for several years.

Of course, as hard as this is for me to believe, there must
be some
users out there who actually like Progress.
OK, I'll shut up now.
I realize that this is certainly more than enough spouting
off for now.
Sorry about that,

Bruce Ordway

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c9acnps/M=267637.4673018.5833253.
1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/EXP=1080517058/A=1945637
/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=6017
8397&partid=4673018> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4673018.5833253.126
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Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>

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Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 27, 2004, 7:18pm

Right NOW its 4GL. But as the Sonoma product continues to
come out it is being developed fully in Visual Studio .NET
and OpenEdge Studio which means business logic is separated
from DB logic and functionality. This means that the
business logic layer will be a Web Service rather than
tightly integrated to the DB. So, there will be choices and
flexibility of the chosen DB.
Lorne Rogers

Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.

Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting

<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>

Add this card to your
<http://ariaconsulting.net/vcf/aria.vcf> OutlookT Contacts

Providing Enterprise Software Solutions to small, medium

and larger businesses/groups through World-Class Partners.

Servicing all of Western Canada.

<http://www.epicor.ca/> <http://www.ezijobz.com/>

<http://www.ebizzones.com/>
<http://evaluation.ariaconsulting.net/>

-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:07 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

It's still 4GL as far as I know.
I think we're looking at all the same old problems that are
associated
with MS SQL right now.

If I'm wrong, that would be great.
I'd have to see it to believe it though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.
[mailto:lrogers@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:08 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Bruce,

Not sure if you missed this point or not....but, Sonoma WILL
have the ability to be database independent. You could run
it on Oracle if you want. The .NET architecture, and the
fact that it is being fully developed in .NET, not just
ported, will mean database independence.....
Lorne Rogers

Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.

Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting

<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>

Add this card to your
<http://ariaconsulting.net/vcf/aria.vcf> OutlookT Contacts

Providing Enterprise Software Solutions to small, medium

and larger businesses/groups through World-Class Partners.

Servicing all of Western Canada.

<http://www.epicor.ca/> <http://www.ezijobz.com/>

<http://www.ebizzones.com/>
<http://evaluation.ariaconsulting.net/>

-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

>the terminal condition of Report Builder. <

I'm a new Vantage user so I haven't had time to get attached
to Report
Builder.
I have plenty of Progress opinions though & this is an area
where I
certainly get wound up easily.
Forgive me while I rant but I think this is a perfect
example of what is
wrong with being tied up with an embedded database.
When Progress says it's dumping Report Builder I suspect
Epicor has no
recourse except to "like it or lump it".
I'm sure that when Epicor started using Progress it was
pretty cool, but
now, IMHO it ain't.
Vantage strikes me as being dependant on 4GL and Progress to
the point
that it is limiting all of our options.
Sometimes I look at Vantage/Progress and it reminds me of
old Visual
FoxPro or Visual Fortran applications.
It's not that they are so bad, just a little "off" & out of
the main
stream.
It seems like it's always just enough so that a lot of
normally simple
tasks in more popular software become difficult or awkward
in these.

I think that Epicor might be as much of a victim here as we
are.
I get the feeling that Epicor is being held hostage by the
makers of
Crystal Reports too.
It must be tough to be a software developer and keep
jockeying around
with all of these suppliers.

I must say I really like the fact that Epicor is getting
their user
interface cleaned up and separated with the development of
Sonoma.
Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't most of the user interface
quirks in
Vantage a direct result of Progress?

Now wouldn't it be great if they created a DB independent
version of
Vantage next.
I'd like to be able to use the DB, programming tools and
reporting tools
of my choice?

I wonder if Epicor is strong enough to make a change of this
magnitude,
and one of their core products. Then what would it take to
coordinate
this with all of the existing customers. Wow! I can only
imagine how
extremely tough this would be to accomplish. I think it's
safe to say we
won't see anything like this for several years.

Of course, as hard as this is for me to believe, there must
be some
users out there who actually like Progress.
OK, I'll shut up now.
I realize that this is certainly more than enough spouting
off for now.
Sorry about that,

Bruce Ordway

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c9acnps/M=267637.4673018.5833253.
1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/EXP=1080517058/A=1945637
/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=6017
8397&partid=4673018> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4673018.5833253.126
1774/D=egroupweb/S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=751323835>

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Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to
enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscr
ibe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]