OT - Open Letter to Vantage

system · March 27, 2004, 8:35pm

Bruce,

It is not just a mission statement. The full product
roll-out is targeted to have occurred by late 2005 to early
1st qtr 2006.

And yes, right now you CAN run on SQL Server. Has to be done
through ODBC. And trying to run a whole application AND data
through an ODBC pipeline has some pretty serious performance
problems. Which is why it is highly discouraged.
Lorne Rogers

Aria Consulting & Implementers Ltd.

Epicor Vista/Vantage Authorized Re-Seller and Consulting

<http://www.ariaconsulting.net/>

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-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Lorne,

I hadn't heard this part yet, just that Sonoma still 4GL
under the hood.

>Right NOW its 4GL. But as the Sonoma product continues to<
>come out it is being developed fully in Visual Studio .NET<
>and OpenEdge Studio which means business logic is

separated<

>from DB logic and functionality. <

Is this kind of like a mission statement or have you heard
of any actual
dates being thrown around?

BTW, when we moved to Vantage, our salesman told us we could
run MS SQL.
We found out later there were performance issues.
Epicors own consultants were adamant about us not trying to
use MS SQL.
Hence my statement, "I'll have to see it to believe it."
I get worried there might be a push to be able to say DB
independence
for PR reasons & a guy could end up with something that
works "sort of".

Of course for a few years, it's moot for me.
We'll implement the Vantage of today with a Progress DB.
By the time Sonoma DB independent is ready our system should
have been
up and running. I doubt we'd turn right around and through
the pain of
another change then. Maybe I'll get a chance to try Vantage
on a
different db in 4 or 5 years?

Thanks,

Bruce Ordway

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo
id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for
Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies',
please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services
goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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system · March 25, 2004, 7:06am

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 8:25am

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 8:29am

I couldn't agree more. With a decreased staff (down to just me) and no
money for development costs -it is impossible for us to replace the
various RB reports. I like RB for the ease of reporting - I can
accomplish a lot within a short period of time. I will have to be
trained ($) on Crystal to be able to do more than what I already know
how to do (which isn't exactly all bad) but, I do not like Crystal as
well as RB for the quick and easy reporting and that is HUGE for our
company.
Thank you for voicing this . . .
Kristine Pollard
American Turned Products

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I
think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it
and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish
the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

system · March 25, 2004, 8:29am

Amen!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

system · March 25, 2004, 8:41am

Here Here !!

Daniel C. Spoerl
Estimator/MIS Manager
Toledo Metal Spinning Co.
Phone: (419) 535-5931 ext. 203
Fax: (419) 535-0565
Personal E-fax: (707) 897-1708
Email: dans@...
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jasper Recto [mailto:jrecto@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Amen!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the
pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements
of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many
gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
$25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some
time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base
and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group.
So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS
going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I
think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it
and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish
the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

system · March 25, 2004, 8:43am

I will have to agree with you. . . . . I will be sitting on 6.0/6.1 for as long as possible.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jasper Recto [mailto:jrecto@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Amen!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 8:56am

Shirley
From The Users Conference the Server Requirements for Sonoma should
be less than 6.1. That doesn't mean MS won't life cycle out something
that's running fine for us. Progress is heading toward platform
independence and java so we could be looking at running on a Linux
server. That shouldn't cost 12K

Or do I have my head in the clouds?

I also think Progress wrote out RB in 10. The links may not be there
for Epicor to patch it in. It's interesting that at a Progress Info
Session Progress, developers cheered at the demise of RB. They live
in a different world.

To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Organization: Rubber Associates Inc.
From: "Shirley Graver" <shirleyg@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
> summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
> the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
> resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
> requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
> Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
> requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
> whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
> server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
> Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
> management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
> $25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
> some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
> management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
> different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
> base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
> group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems
> we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS
> going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I
> think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use
> it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
> accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

system · March 25, 2004, 9:38am

Russ,
My comments weren't meant as a criticism just an expectation of
what's to come. Who knows maybe Linux will actually be a viable option
across the board. I don't expect Epicor to perpetuate old technology (RB)
for the sake of slow moving users, especially if the main engine won't
support it. But I DO expect Epicor to take into account that their customer
base doesn't live in a vacuum. I also expect them to source some reasonable
replacement for RB. They know what we're looking for we've been clear enough
I think. We all know the cost of standing still in this field. As to the
12k, shucks who knows what other requirements there are going to be, we may
not even NEED servers in 4 years, just minor surgery to implant the chip.

Shirley

_____

From: Russ Dover [mailto:rdover@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Shirley
From The Users Conference the Server Requirements for Sonoma should
be less than 6.1. That doesn't mean MS won't life cycle out something
that's running fine for us. Progress is heading toward platform
independence and java so we could be looking at running on a Linux
server. That shouldn't cost 12K

Or do I have my head in the clouds?

I also think Progress wrote out RB in 10. The links may not be there
for Epicor to patch it in. It's interesting that at a Progress Info
Session Progress, developers cheered at the demise of RB. They live
in a different world.

To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Organization: Rubber Associates Inc.
From: "Shirley Graver" <shirleyg@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
> summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
> the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
> resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
> requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
> Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
> requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
> whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
> server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
> Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
> management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
> $25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
> some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
> management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
> different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
> base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
> group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems
> we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS
> going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I
> think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use
> it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
> accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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tflix.com/Default?mqso=60178383&partid=4673019> click here

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_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 9:59am

It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available (Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or supported? Am I wrong?
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

system · March 25, 2004, 10:20am

At the MN user group meeting last week I was told that existing reports would continue to work with Progress 10 but that they could not longer be maintained or created. Now I'm no expert on the licensing legalities, but it seems it would be possible to run Progress 9.1D on another server (as we do with test servers for migration) and maintain reports there for use on Progress 10. One hitch might be incompatibility with new tables/fields in Sonoma database and not translatable to P9.1D due to dictionary structure changes. But the door may be open a crack for a temporary kludge solution.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:30 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available (Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or supported? Am I wrong?
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 10:27am

A suggestion......
Have corporate management take out large life insurance policies. Then when you tell them what it's going to cost and they turn colors and drop over dead you can use the proceeds to pay for it. ;)

More seriously... "change is a constant" with software you just have to roll with it. At least at this point I don't feel any pressure to move to Sonoma immediately so RB will be fine for a couple years until I learn an alternative. Speaking of which despite being harder to rapidly make reports with Crystal 10 looks might intriguing with the .Net hooks. It may well be that it will become easier with Sonoma than 6.1. I can't imagine anyone being a bigger RB fan than I am but if I have to I'm ready to move on. I liked the comment earlier about VBI/CorVu which may become our rapid report tool since we have already purchased it.

All this change means knowledge is going to be critical - anyone not attending the next Perspectives conference is really going to be operating in the dark. There is no better chance to get your specific questions answered and speak your mind to the Epicor folks. Oct. 24-27 in Las Vegas again is what I heard at local user group meeting last week. If there was ever a year to lobby management and make a case for attending this would be it. It would be really easy to make a costly technology decision this that is contrary to what Sonoma will require a couple years from now. More costly than attending.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:16 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Russ,
My comments weren't meant as a criticism just an expectation of
what's to come. Who knows maybe Linux will actually be a viable option
across the board. I don't expect Epicor to perpetuate old technology (RB)
for the sake of slow moving users, especially if the main engine won't
support it. But I DO expect Epicor to take into account that their customer
base doesn't live in a vacuum. I also expect them to source some reasonable
replacement for RB. They know what we're looking for we've been clear enough
I think. We all know the cost of standing still in this field. As to the
12k, shucks who knows what other requirements there are going to be, we may
not even NEED servers in 4 years, just minor surgery to implant the chip.

Shirley

_____

From: Russ Dover [mailto:rdover@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Shirley
From The Users Conference the Server Requirements for Sonoma should
be less than 6.1. That doesn't mean MS won't life cycle out something
that's running fine for us. Progress is heading toward platform
independence and java so we could be looking at running on a Linux
server. That shouldn't cost 12K

Or do I have my head in the clouds?

I also think Progress wrote out RB in 10. The links may not be there
for Epicor to patch it in. It's interesting that at a Progress Info
Session Progress, developers cheered at the demise of RB. They live
in a different world.

To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Organization: Rubber Associates Inc.
From: "Shirley Graver" <shirleyg@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
> summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
> the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
> resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
> requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
> Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
> requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
> whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
> server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
> Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
> management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
> $25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
> some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
> management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
> different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
> base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
> group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems
> we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS
> going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I
> think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use
> it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
> accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 10:28am

It will be available, but you won't be able to modify any of your reports and if the table names change when you upgrade you will not be able to change those either....
this is what I have I heard

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:30 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available (Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or supported? Am I wrong?
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this summer,
then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down the pike:

1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely resource
intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware requirements of
5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and Many gigs
of storage space.
2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server requirements
change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or whatever)
will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the server.
PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report Builder)

So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to management
and ask for ..

1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @ $25.00/hr
$37,5000
4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)

On top of regular Support Fees.

So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs some time
in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my management
for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many different
and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install base and
guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little group. So
count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing systems we
have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.

So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front . IS going
to be appreciated, a lot.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

_____

From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Dear Dr. Vantage:

Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason, I think
an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB and
continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it, use it and
have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.

I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY not
looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to accomplish the
same result.

I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.

Just a thought...

RG

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 10:42am

Just to add a note about what we were told at the MN User group
meeting. That not being able to make changes to existing reports
includes not being able to change filters on the fly, which really
reduces the usablility of existing reports in my opinion.

Mark Pladson did mention that they are working on some interesting
reporting options, but they were too early in planning stages to give
much information. I did prompt him several times for answers, and I
only got out of him that it may be an alternative to using Crystal
Enterprise for distrbuting reports. Look for more details later this
year, probably a featured topic at Perspectives in October.

I haven't been a big fan of Report Builder so I'm not going to miss
it that much. I do feel the pain of the group however as I would
hate to have to recreate all of my Crystal or Access reports. At the
user group meeting I did get the impression that Epicor sincerely
fought for keeping Report Builder and are disappointed that Progress
turned them down.

I am excited to hear about what alternatives they are working on and
will wait to decide about upgrading to Sonoma and what to do with my
reports until after those details are released.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> At the MN user group meeting last week I was told that existing
reports would continue to work with Progress 10 but that they could
not longer be maintained or created. Now I'm no expert on the
licensing legalities, but it seems it would be possible to run
Progress 9.1D on another server (as we do with test servers for
migration) and maintain reports there for use on Progress 10. One
hitch might be incompatibility with new tables/fields in Sonoma
database and not translatable to P9.1D due to dictionary structure
changes. But the door may be open a crack for a temporary kludge
solution.
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@k...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:30 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available
(Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or
supported? Am I wrong?
> Jeremy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@R...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
$25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing
systems we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front .
IS going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@o...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason,
I think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB
and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it,
use it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY
not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 12:49pm

Brian or Todd:
Could you tell me where and when the MN User Group meets?
Thanks!
Julie
Mercury Minnesota Inc.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Stenglein
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Just to add a note about what we were told at the MN User group
meeting. That not being able to make changes to existing reports
includes not being able to change filters on the fly, which really
reduces the usablility of existing reports in my opinion.

Mark Pladson did mention that they are working on some interesting
reporting options, but they were too early in planning stages to give
much information. I did prompt him several times for answers, and I
only got out of him that it may be an alternative to using Crystal
Enterprise for distrbuting reports. Look for more details later this
year, probably a featured topic at Perspectives in October.

I haven't been a big fan of Report Builder so I'm not going to miss
it that much. I do feel the pain of the group however as I would
hate to have to recreate all of my Crystal or Access reports. At the
user group meeting I did get the impression that Epicor sincerely
fought for keeping Report Builder and are disappointed that Progress
turned them down.

I am excited to hear about what alternatives they are working on and
will wait to decide about upgrading to Sonoma and what to do with my
reports until after those details are released.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> At the MN user group meeting last week I was told that existing
reports would continue to work with Progress 10 but that they could
not longer be maintained or created. Now I'm no expert on the
licensing legalities, but it seems it would be possible to run
Progress 9.1D on another server (as we do with test servers for
migration) and maintain reports there for use on Progress 10. One
hitch might be incompatibility with new tables/fields in Sonoma
database and not translatable to P9.1D due to dictionary structure
changes. But the door may be open a crack for a temporary kludge
solution.
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@k...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:30 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available
(Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or
supported? Am I wrong?
> Jeremy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@R...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
$25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing
systems we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front .
IS going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@o...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason,
I think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB
and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it,
use it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY
not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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system · March 25, 2004, 1:09pm

MN group meets irregularly since we have no user leader. Brian Keets, CAM for MN, has been organizing meetings. They are generally held in the 20th floor meeting room at the Epicor offices in Plymouth (corner of I-394 and MN 169). Last few meetings have been at 1pm or 1:30pm. Brian should have you on his email list but perhaps someone else in your company is his contact? Odds are he will read this and add you for future. He is trying to organize a meeting outside the metro area, probably south somewhere in order to make it easier for more people. But we are blessed in MN area with having all the Vantage development people at local office so (as with last week) people like Mark Pladson can contribute easily when meetings are there.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Lehmann [mailto:jlehmann@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Brian or Todd:
Could you tell me where and when the MN User Group meets?
Thanks!
Julie
Mercury Minnesota Inc.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Stenglein
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Just to add a note about what we were told at the MN User group
meeting. That not being able to make changes to existing reports
includes not being able to change filters on the fly, which really
reduces the usablility of existing reports in my opinion.

Mark Pladson did mention that they are working on some interesting
reporting options, but they were too early in planning stages to give
much information. I did prompt him several times for answers, and I
only got out of him that it may be an alternative to using Crystal
Enterprise for distrbuting reports. Look for more details later this
year, probably a featured topic at Perspectives in October.

I haven't been a big fan of Report Builder so I'm not going to miss
it that much. I do feel the pain of the group however as I would
hate to have to recreate all of my Crystal or Access reports. At the
user group meeting I did get the impression that Epicor sincerely
fought for keeping Report Builder and are disappointed that Progress
turned them down.

I am excited to hear about what alternatives they are working on and
will wait to decide about upgrading to Sonoma and what to do with my
reports until after those details are released.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> At the MN user group meeting last week I was told that existing
reports would continue to work with Progress 10 but that they could
not longer be maintained or created. Now I'm no expert on the
licensing legalities, but it seems it would be possible to run
Progress 9.1D on another server (as we do with test servers for
migration) and maintain reports there for use on Progress 10. One
hitch might be incompatibility with new tables/fields in Sonoma
database and not translatable to P9.1D due to dictionary structure
changes. But the door may be open a crack for a temporary kludge
solution.
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@k...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:30 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> It was my understanding the Report Builder would still be available
(Outside of Vantage) with Progress 10, just not enhanced or
supported? Am I wrong?
> Jeremy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@R...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:24 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
>
> I will second that emotion. My intent is to get to 6.0/6.1 this
summer,
> then squat there for 3 or 4 years. Here is what I see coming down
the pike:
>
> 1. Microsoft - Microsoft's longhorn is going to be hugely
resource
> intensive. Preliminary evaluations are expecting hardware
requirements of
> 5-6 gigahertz in processor speeds, a MINIMUM of 1 gig of ram, and
Many gigs
> of storage space.
> 2. Epicor - going to any version past 6.0/6.1 - Server
requirements
> change drastically - I have the expectation that Server 200x (or
whatever)
> will be required. PLUS an increased resource requirement for the
server.
> PLUS loosing a resource that I have THOUSANDS of hours in (Report
Builder)
>
> So this means that some time in 2007-2008 - 2009 I have to go to
management
> and ask for ..
>
> 1. 30 new computer builds Maybe $900.00 Each ($27,000.00)
> 2. A new server. $10,000, to $12,000.00
> 3. Time to reinvent many hundreds of RB reports 1500 hours @
$25.00/hr
> $37,5000
> 4. Time to rebuild my network (I wont even try to guess cost)
>
> On top of regular Support Fees.
>
> So at MINIMUM - I see $75,000 to $100,000 in IT improvement costs
some time
> in the next 3 to 4 years. We are not a big company, asking my
management
> for 100 grand PLUS to play with will cause them to turn many many
different
> and interesting shades of color. Multiply that over your install
base and
> guess what, MILLIONS spent on improvements, just in our little
group. So
> count on us milking every dribble of use out of the existing
systems we
> have, before we as your customer base spend those millions.
>
> So Epicor . anything you can do to help us out on the RB front .
IS going
> to be appreciated, a lot.
>
> Shirley Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc.
>
> _____
>
> From: Rick Gors [mailto:rgors@o...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:46 AM
> To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
> Subject: [Vantage] OT - Open Letter to Vantage...
>
> Dear Dr. Vantage:
>
> Since Progress is going to drop Report Builder for whatever reason,
I think
> an excellent gesture from Epicor would be to buy the rights to RB
and
> continue to provide it to us users. Many of us clearly like it,
use it and
> have, in some cases, a massive investment in it.
>
> I have many reports embedded into my menu structure and am REALLY
not
> looking to try and reinvent the wheel using Crystal just to
accomplish the
> same result.
>
> I think this would be good PR and good customer relations.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> RG
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> Tracking #: 06E0BE724317D84BB6C9459F0C549AD5D901C861
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 2:16pm

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

system · March 25, 2004, 2:31pm

Then again, all our tech jobs could be farmed out to India by then and we
can all move into the burger manufacturing sector. How does Vantage handle
issuing mustard to a burger assembly, and are fries a sub assembly or a
material.

Shirley

_____

From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Tracking #: 1BBD43987AA8FD4094843ABEDCEBC57E3CC2C5D1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 2:34pm

Shirley---
Vantage would backflush the mustard at the time it is eaten.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:30 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Then again, all our tech jobs could be farmed out to India by then and we
can all move into the burger manufacturing sector. How does Vantage handle
issuing mustard to a burger assembly, and are fries a sub assembly or a
material.

Shirley

_____

From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> >
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/>

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .

Tracking #: 1BBD43987AA8FD4094843ABEDCEBC57E3CC2C5D1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 25, 2004, 2:35pm

In the Help-About... for RB it states that "Report Builder is a derivative work of R&R Report Writer (R) by Concentric Data Systems, Inc.". I did a search once and it appears that the original products has gone on to several changes that have diverged from RB and the owner company has changed hands several times. I fear it is now an orphan.

The big issue with running RB and the filter problem with Progress 10 and Sonoma is that there is little or no Progress code being run on the client. The client side is just a viewer for processing being done on the server. All that .Net stuff and the requirement to have XP in order for the client side to run. Thus without the Progress components running on the client it can't prompt for filter changes. There may be a way to run Progress stuff on the client if you have Progress development tools but for mere mortals like me this is out of reach. So the root of the problem for Progress corp is the migration to this small-client .Net via OpenEdge sort of architecture that moves away from RB being able to work.

At least that was my understanding from the local meeting last week.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: OT - Open Letter to Vantage...

Ah, back to one of my most favorite/most despised subjects, the
terminal condition of Report Builder.

I too hope to keep RB on a report development server for as long as
it can access current Progress databases.

I read somewhere that Progress purchased RB from a third party, which
makes me think it had to be modified to read Progress data directly.

Why wouldn't it continue to be compatible?

How your database is structured, or if Vantage adds tables, fields or
indexes, shouldn't be a factor. You can report no matter the number
of fields, field names, lengths, etc., or changes in database
structure, just as long as RB can "see" the tables, fields and
indexes.

Regarding filters, if a report will run, I'll bet dynamic filtering
will still work, as that is a built-in function of the same RB Engine
that runs the report.

But, if what defines a Progress database AS a Progress database
changes, RB is sunk without modification.

It would be interesting to test a Progress 9 database with Report
Builder from Progress 6 or so. If anyone is running an older
Progress version I could send a small Progress 9 DB with test data.

Even if forward compatibility works, I fear for RB due to Progress
Corp's partnership with Crystal and CorVu (probable kick backs within
a slow econony). If the problem is that it is free (continued
maintenance with no return), we would gladly pay extra to keep RB.

Lonnie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]