What I'm trying to say is that Sonoma is going to be a major overhaul of the
product. Every line of front-end code will be re-written using Visual
Studio .NET. Epicor is working directly with Progress to assure seamless
integration of the front-ends with the progress back-end.
I've been programming using the visual studio .net product for the last year
now, and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this change in
architecture is going to make Epicor's job a heck of a lot easier. Bugs
will be much easier to track down and resolve, and a lot of the restrictions
the current Provision environment places on epicor in GUI development will
be a thing of the past.
Since the Business Tier will run entirely on the server (using the Progress
Appserver), a lot of the performance issues due to outdated workstations and
slow network connections will be mitigated. Operation will be considerably
more reliable. I'm using the AppServer right now for some of our custom
applications, and it is quite sweet.
Since Business Logic will be completely separated from user interface, it
will be much easier to maintain and eliminate bugs on that front. Though
the progress-based architecture they use now was state of the art back in
the days of 2.7 and 3.0, the new hybrid .NET/Progress approach is going to
be much easier to enhance, expand, and maintain.
My thought is that once Sonoma is released, there's a good chance that the
product will be the best ERP system on the market hands-down. As an
in-house programmer, it will make my job a lot easier. That's why I'm of
the opinion, biased as it may be, that waiting for Sonoma is probably the
best thing to do, even if it means tolerating the bugs in the current system
until then.
I'm not guaranteeing that bugs will go away. However in overhauling vantage
to run in the Sonoma architecture, Epicor will have a chance to either
create or eliminate a large number of bugs in one fell swoop. I'm hoping
for the latter, optimistic as I may be.
Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:09 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Recommendation: Wait for Sonoma, then make your call.
Vantage seems to currently try to be a one-size-fits all solution. If
enough customers request a feature, it gets added. Meanwhile the customers
that don't need a feature are sometimes forced to use functionality that
doesn't save them time and only complicates already-established processes.
What I hope is that the new Sonoma architecture will provide customers with
the ability to choose between different workflows/front ends, and even
create their own custom workflows/front ends. For instance, companies that
need the Engineering Workbench functionality can have it, whereas Document
Control departments (who basically manually enter or revise BOM's per a
paper sitting on their desk), can have a simplified, streamlined interface
that allows them to do just that. Companies that use CAD packages such as
Solidworks and AutoCAD / Via should be provided with plugin interface
options, or at least have the ability to home-grow their own if they want.
When a front end is drastically changed, customers should have the option to
revert to the old-style 'classic' interface if they wish, especially while
the bugs are being ironed out of the new interface.
In talking with Epicor, it sounds like alot of these issues will be
addressed in Sonoma. I'm willing to wait for this new system, because if
all the marketing hype is true, it will give Epicor much greater flexibility
in supporting custom implemetions of the product, and will allow Epicor to
address one set of customer's needs without harming other customers. I also
believe that Sonoma will give customers with in-house programmers the
ability to customize and automate the system as required, without having to
resort to non-standard home-grown methods.
I do have to admit, though, if all we had to look forward to was vantage 6,
there's a pretty good chance we'd be reconsidering our ERP system selection.
However, I suggest that users that can afford to wait for Sonoma do so.
Sonoma's proposed architecture is the best I've seen yet, from a developer's
perspective, and I believe that it will take Vantage to a new level, in all
respects. I just hope we don't have to wait too long to reap the benefits,
and that new licensing costs remain reasonable.
Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:09 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not
We purchased Vantage 2.70 in 1997, started using it in 1998. We had to have
a lot of customization done on it before we could use
it. Every time DCD or Dataworks or Epicor came up with a new version of
Vantage we were excited about it. We were thinking that the
bugs that we reported in a previous version would have been fixed, but
unfortunately in many cases not only the bugs were not fixed
but new ones were introduced. Since we are always one version behind of the
current one there are no current patches available for
us. Right now we are on 4.0 and going to upgrade to 5.1 soon. We had to ask
custom programming to take new features introduced in
5.1 out to make it just like it was in 4.0 before we can use it.
In my opinion Epicor is doing a great job of introducing new modules and new
features but it's doing a terrible job of assuring the
quality and functionality of them. At this point we are thinking dumping
Vantage but not right away, may be not to renew the service
contract for a couple of years and purchase a new software with the savings
unless we see some improvements in quality.
Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340
USA
Tel.: 818-361-0059 Ext.: 246
Fax 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
product. Every line of front-end code will be re-written using Visual
Studio .NET. Epicor is working directly with Progress to assure seamless
integration of the front-ends with the progress back-end.
I've been programming using the visual studio .net product for the last year
now, and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this change in
architecture is going to make Epicor's job a heck of a lot easier. Bugs
will be much easier to track down and resolve, and a lot of the restrictions
the current Provision environment places on epicor in GUI development will
be a thing of the past.
Since the Business Tier will run entirely on the server (using the Progress
Appserver), a lot of the performance issues due to outdated workstations and
slow network connections will be mitigated. Operation will be considerably
more reliable. I'm using the AppServer right now for some of our custom
applications, and it is quite sweet.
Since Business Logic will be completely separated from user interface, it
will be much easier to maintain and eliminate bugs on that front. Though
the progress-based architecture they use now was state of the art back in
the days of 2.7 and 3.0, the new hybrid .NET/Progress approach is going to
be much easier to enhance, expand, and maintain.
My thought is that once Sonoma is released, there's a good chance that the
product will be the best ERP system on the market hands-down. As an
in-house programmer, it will make my job a lot easier. That's why I'm of
the opinion, biased as it may be, that waiting for Sonoma is probably the
best thing to do, even if it means tolerating the bugs in the current system
until then.
I'm not guaranteeing that bugs will go away. However in overhauling vantage
to run in the Sonoma architecture, Epicor will have a chance to either
create or eliminate a large number of bugs in one fell swoop. I'm hoping
for the latter, optimistic as I may be.
Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:09 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Recommendation: Wait for Sonoma, then make your call.
Vantage seems to currently try to be a one-size-fits all solution. If
enough customers request a feature, it gets added. Meanwhile the customers
that don't need a feature are sometimes forced to use functionality that
doesn't save them time and only complicates already-established processes.
What I hope is that the new Sonoma architecture will provide customers with
the ability to choose between different workflows/front ends, and even
create their own custom workflows/front ends. For instance, companies that
need the Engineering Workbench functionality can have it, whereas Document
Control departments (who basically manually enter or revise BOM's per a
paper sitting on their desk), can have a simplified, streamlined interface
that allows them to do just that. Companies that use CAD packages such as
Solidworks and AutoCAD / Via should be provided with plugin interface
options, or at least have the ability to home-grow their own if they want.
When a front end is drastically changed, customers should have the option to
revert to the old-style 'classic' interface if they wish, especially while
the bugs are being ironed out of the new interface.
In talking with Epicor, it sounds like alot of these issues will be
addressed in Sonoma. I'm willing to wait for this new system, because if
all the marketing hype is true, it will give Epicor much greater flexibility
in supporting custom implemetions of the product, and will allow Epicor to
address one set of customer's needs without harming other customers. I also
believe that Sonoma will give customers with in-house programmers the
ability to customize and automate the system as required, without having to
resort to non-standard home-grown methods.
I do have to admit, though, if all we had to look forward to was vantage 6,
there's a pretty good chance we'd be reconsidering our ERP system selection.
However, I suggest that users that can afford to wait for Sonoma do so.
Sonoma's proposed architecture is the best I've seen yet, from a developer's
perspective, and I believe that it will take Vantage to a new level, in all
respects. I just hope we don't have to wait too long to reap the benefits,
and that new licensing costs remain reasonable.
Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tonoyan [mailto:miket@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:09 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not
We purchased Vantage 2.70 in 1997, started using it in 1998. We had to have
a lot of customization done on it before we could use
it. Every time DCD or Dataworks or Epicor came up with a new version of
Vantage we were excited about it. We were thinking that the
bugs that we reported in a previous version would have been fixed, but
unfortunately in many cases not only the bugs were not fixed
but new ones were introduced. Since we are always one version behind of the
current one there are no current patches available for
us. Right now we are on 4.0 and going to upgrade to 5.1 soon. We had to ask
custom programming to take new features introduced in
5.1 out to make it just like it was in 4.0 before we can use it.
In my opinion Epicor is doing a great job of introducing new modules and new
features but it's doing a terrible job of assuring the
quality and functionality of them. At this point we are thinking dumping
Vantage but not right away, may be not to renew the service
contract for a couple of years and purchase a new software with the savings
unless we see some improvements in quality.
Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340
USA
Tel.: 818-361-0059 Ext.: 246
Fax 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rreilly@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not
> We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
> never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
> cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
> custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
> having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
> also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
> are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
> about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
> stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
> would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
> vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
> to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Rhonda
>
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/