Service Connect Training?

I'll jump on the bandwagon with my two cents.



I think Service Connect is a fantastic tool, it's really the only way to tap
fully into the business logic. With Service Connect, you can pretty much
duplicate what the end users do with just the data they enter, and you don't
have to concern yourself as much with ALL the other tasks the business logic
does. As an example if you are creating a sales order, you simply update
the customer field and the business logic defaults terms codes, ship vias,
ship tos, etc.



That being said, I also echo the sentiment that Service Connect is not for
the weary. Developing workflows is definitely an art, not a science.
Doing a trace gives you a pretty good idea of the methods you need to call,
but after that there are a bunch of tricks (undocumented features) that you
have to worry about. I've been developing workflows since about the
beginning of Service Connect and Vantage 8.0, worked with a lot of the early
Epicor staff, and we even used our site for some of the first documentation
(my apologies).



I now develop workflows for companies as part of my own consulting business
(shameless plug). Even now with lots of workflows under my belt, I still
run across those hair-pullers on a seemingly simple task. About the only
way you'll really get good at using the tool is digging in and battling it,
and finding some good resources when you inevitably get stuck. Once you're
on the other side, you'll find SC to be an unbeatable resource in certain
scenarios.



Kevin Simon

SimsTrak Consulting

simstrak@...



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CarlH
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 7:59 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Service Connect Training?





My experience is pretty well along the same line as the other two comments.
Over the years I've written a lot of code and was looking forward to SC. But
after an on-site training exercise, the instructor and I failed to make it
through the sample in the Education guide. I still fiddle with it - trial
and error is a good way to explain it --- and still have yet to write even
one successful work flow.

Still I do believe it is a safe way to load data and will keep after at it.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian
W. Spolarich " <bspolarich@...> wrote:
>
> I don't hate SC with the vehemence that Vic does, buty I haven't had to
touch workflows much in the past year. But it is hard to work with. However
the BOs are the only supported way to do transactions in Vantage outside of
the client, so you don't want to be touching the database directly. You're
either going to have to write .NET code against the BOs (not documented, but
some folks have provided examples here), or use the web services methods
with code of your own, or use the web services with workflows you create via
SC.
>
> This is definitely not an end-user kind of thing. To use this successfully
requires some programming experience (just for the basic mindset, not for
any particular language or toolset), and understanding of the Vantage BOs
and their peculiarities, and lots of trial and error.
>
> -brian
>
> --
> Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix
> bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:34 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?
>
> I second Sean's input.
>
>
>
> Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
> have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
> I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
> Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
> Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.
>
>
>
> Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
> immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
> lost quickly.
>
>
>
> Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
> on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
> product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
> forever and it's just not a nice interface.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We've purchased the Service Connect module for 8.03 and have training coming up. Who should attend the training? Would end-users build the service connect workflows or is it more of a technical programming function?

Thanks!
IMHO -- More technical with a good background in programming -- make
sure they can make their way around in Epicor as well.

I attended a service connect training class and the other two
individuals hadn't logged into Epicor before, with minimal experience
with programming. Frankly, they were lost - not programmers who
understand the logic behind how things work and why you have to do
things a certain way within a programming environment and definitely
didn't understand how things work in Epicor.

If they have some prior experience with web methods all the better as
that is what you are working with using service connect as the user
interface to these pieces.

At times you will be overwhelmed, but hang in there. It's a great tool.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of brucewbrannan
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:05 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?





We've purchased the Service Connect module for 8.03 and have training
coming up. Who should attend the training? Would end-users build the
service connect workflows or is it more of a technical programming
function?

Thanks!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was the only attendee for my training. I would think that you
wouldn't want end users meddling with SC.



Thanks,

Blake Clemens

IT Systems Engineer

Delmarva Millwork Corporation

(800) 360-2364 x132

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of brucewbrannan
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:05 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?





We've purchased the Service Connect module for 8.03 and have training
coming up. Who should attend the training? Would end-users build the
service connect workflows or is it more of a technical programming
function?

Thanks!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I second Sean's input.



Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.



Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
lost quickly.



Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
forever and it's just not a nice interface.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't hate SC with the vehemence that Vic does, buty I haven't had to touch workflows much in the past year. But it is hard to work with. However the BOs are the only supported way to do transactions in Vantage outside of the client, so you don't want to be touching the database directly. You're either going to have to write .NET code against the BOs (not documented, but some folks have provided examples here), or use the web services methods with code of your own, or use the web services with workflows you create via SC.

This is definitely not an end-user kind of thing. To use this successfully requires some programming experience (just for the basic mindset, not for any particular language or toolset), and understanding of the Vantage BOs and their peculiarities, and lots of trial and error.

-brian

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?

I second Sean's input.



Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.



Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
lost quickly.



Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
forever and it's just not a nice interface.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Let me just add that if nothing else service connect training, like SDK
training, gives your technical crew a HUGE insight into how Epicor works
giving them even more options to accomplish any changes that you might
request.

Many look at the Epicor database being directly connected with the form,
but this is not the case. At no time does an Epicor form update directly
to the database. Every update/add/delete in Epicor goes through the
following sequence:

<form> <-> <business Objects> <-> <database>

The business object (adapter) code is what you will never see as this is
Epicor's bread and butter - how Epicor works so to speak.

Going directly against the database circumvents all business logic that
Epicor provides for you to make sure that your Epicor system doesn't
have problems.

After going through Service Connect and SDK training I'm of the opinion
that anything is possible within Epicor - no matter how big or small.

With the understanding that I have of how Epicor does things through the
business objects/Adapters I can do anything Epicor can do from anywhere
within Epicor by hooking into an event or creating an event of my own.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Brian W. Spolarich
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:45 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?





I don't hate SC with the vehemence that Vic does, buty I haven't had to
touch workflows much in the past year. But it is hard to work with.
However the BOs are the only supported way to do transactions in Vantage
outside of the client, so you don't want to be touching the database
directly. You're either going to have to write .NET code against the BOs
(not documented, but some folks have provided examples here), or use the
web services methods with code of your own, or use the web services with
workflows you create via SC.

This is definitely not an end-user kind of thing. To use this
successfully requires some programming experience (just for the basic
mindset, not for any particular language or toolset), and understanding
of the Vantage BOs and their peculiarities, and lots of trial and error.

-brian

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix
bspolarich@...
<mailto:bspolarich%40advancedphotonix.com> ~ 734-864-5618 ~
www.advancedphotonix.com

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?

I second Sean's input.

Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.

Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
lost quickly.

Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
forever and it's just not a nice interface.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ill second brian's opionion, with a nod of understanding in Vic's
direction. If you a solid programmer with extensive background and
knowledge like Vic, SC may frustrate you. However, if youre like me,
with just enough programming experience to get that 'mindset', and are a
power user/administrator of Vantage, SC is a great tool. Yes it can be
a bit frustrating to develop work flows at times because of the lack of
documentation and some other inconsistencies ive noticed, but it does
incorporate the business logic so its a lot safer interacting with the
database. You don't have to worry about all the triggers and stored
procedures etc... And like Brian said, it is the only supported
platform to interact with the database outside Vantage. We've made
effective use of it here for all its faults.



Rob Bucek

Manufacturing Engineer

PH: (715) 284-5376 ext 3111

Mobile: (715)896-0590

FAX: (715)284-4084

<http://www.dsmfg.com/>

(Click the logo to view our site) <http://www.dsmfg.com/>





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Brian W. Spolarich
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:45 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?





I don't hate SC with the vehemence that Vic does, buty I haven't had to
touch workflows much in the past year. But it is hard to work with.
However the BOs are the only supported way to do transactions in Vantage
outside of the client, so you don't want to be touching the database
directly. You're either going to have to write .NET code against the BOs
(not documented, but some folks have provided examples here), or use the
web services methods with code of your own, or use the web services with
workflows you create via SC.

This is definitely not an end-user kind of thing. To use this
successfully requires some programming experience (just for the basic
mindset, not for any particular language or toolset), and understanding
of the Vantage BOs and their peculiarities, and lots of trial and error.

-brian

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix
bspolarich@...
<mailto:bspolarich%40advancedphotonix.com> ~ 734-864-5618 ~
www.advancedphotonix.com

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?

I second Sean's input.

Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.

Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
lost quickly.

Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
forever and it's just not a nice interface.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My experience is pretty well along the same line as the other two comments. Over the years I've written a lot of code and was looking forward to SC. But after an on-site training exercise, the instructor and I failed to make it through the sample in the Education guide. I still fiddle with it - trial and error is a good way to explain it --- and still have yet to write even one successful work flow.

Still I do believe it is a safe way to load data and will keep after at it.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Brian W. Spolarich " <bspolarich@...> wrote:
>
> I don't hate SC with the vehemence that Vic does, buty I haven't had to touch workflows much in the past year. But it is hard to work with. However the BOs are the only supported way to do transactions in Vantage outside of the client, so you don't want to be touching the database directly. You're either going to have to write .NET code against the BOs (not documented, but some folks have provided examples here), or use the web services methods with code of your own, or use the web services with workflows you create via SC.
>
> This is definitely not an end-user kind of thing. To use this successfully requires some programming experience (just for the basic mindset, not for any particular language or toolset), and understanding of the Vantage BOs and their peculiarities, and lots of trial and error.
>
> -brian
>
> --
> Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
> Â Â Â Â bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:34 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Service Connect Training?
>
> I second Sean's input.
>
>
>
> Service Connect is not for the weary. You need to be a programmer or
> have a programming mindset. And it's very, very far from intuitive.
> I've been programming/"coding" for 20 years and I hate, hate, hate
> Service Connect. What takes me 1 hour to create and test in Service
> Connect it takes me 10 minutes to do in SQL.
>
>
>
> Just make sure that when you have completed training that you
> immediately start writing workflows otherwise your knowledge will be
> lost quickly.
>
>
>
> Service Connect I'm sure has benefits somewhere. It's extensively used
> on the PLM module "bolt-on" from ProCAD called ProFile. We use the PLM
> product a lot. When I have to troubleshoot Service Connect it takes
> forever and it's just not a nice interface.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>