Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance

Yahoo Archive
1
To change the progress database block size you have to do a dump and load.

Brian Johnson -- Epi-Center <http://epi-ctr.com>
Director of Technical Services | direct: 413-531-2859

On 03/05/2010 02:47 PM, too_much_hg wrote:
>
> Adam,
>
> You are welcome, glad to help.
>
> You are correct, I am on SQL 2005.
>
> I did some quick checking on the recommended Block Size
> recommendations for Progress databases and it looks like the best
> practice would be either 4k or 8k Block Size.
>
> I am not an expert at Progress DB Config, but there are commands to
> run to specify Block Size as well as check the size currently configured.
>
> Therefore my recommendation would be 64K for SQL and (4K or 8K) for
> Progress, making sure they match. (4K or 8K or 64K) would likely have
> little impact on the OS partition so you could just do all partitions
> the same.
>
> Regards,
> Neil
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "adam.whipp" <adam.whipp@...> wrote:
> >
> > Neil,
> >
> > Thank you very much for this alignment info....however, I have one
> question: I noticed you recommended a 64K NTFS block size. However,
> the Progress database is only a 4K block size, and I've been reading
> that you shouldn't use an NTFS block size larger than the database
> block size. Maybe you are on a SQL database...we are on
> Progress...that might explain the difference. Thanks,
> >
> > Adam Whipp
> >
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "too_much_hg" <neil_willet@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here is a good page to describe the benefits of partition alignment.
> > > Don't let the SQL thing throw you off, it is really about alignment.
> > >
> > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx
> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx>
> > >
> > > This is a VERY good read, well worth your time.
> > >
> > > The long and short of it is that you open a command prompt and use
> these commands :
> > >
> > > To check if a specific partition is aligned, copy and paste this line.
> > >
> > > wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
> > >
> > > You will get something like this ... I have multiple RAID
> arrays/partitions as advised by Ned, myself and others, some are on
> controller Channel-A and the rest on Channel-B.
> > >
> > > C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName>wmic partition get
> BlockSize,StartingOffset, Name, Index
> > > BlockSize Index Name StartingOffset
> > > 512 0 Disk #1, Partition #0 16384
> > > 512 0 Disk #2, Partition #0 1048576
> > > 512 0 Disk #3, Partition #0 1048576
> > > 512 0 Disk #4, Partition #0 1048576
> > > 512 0 Disk #0, Partition #0 1048576
> > >
> > > I am sure you noticed Disk #1 is not aligned properly. If I had
> used a windows PE disk to create the partition before running Windows
> Setup, the system partition they would all be aligned properly ....
> > >
> > > To create an aligned partition, you must use the newer version of
> diskpart.
> > >
> > > Unless you have some odd configuration, use 64K block size.
> > >
> > > C:>Diskpart
> > > C:>list disk
> > > C:>select disk <DiskNumber>
> > > C:>create partition primary align=1024
> > >
> > > Just use 1024, you can afford a few extra bytes before the first
> sector only, then you know you will align no matter what block size
> you choose when formating.
> > >
> > > C:>assign letter=<DriveLetter>
> > > C:>format fs=ntfs unit=64K label="<label>" nowait
> > >
> > > These 2 may not work properly, no problem, just create your drives
> after the OS install in Disk Management and DON'T use the Default
> block size ... use 64K.
> > >
> > > FYI: Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 now create properly aligned
> partitions by default .... YEAH, about time !
> > >
> > > TIP: An easy way to properly align partitions for your XP installs
> is to hook up the drive to a Windows 7 box as a slave and create the
> partition, then put the drive in your XP box to install the XP OS.
> > > If you are even more SAVY you could create a WinPE Boot CD and run
> diskpart on the drive before the XP OS install.
> > >
> > > I hope this helps .... :-)
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "randyduly" <randy.duly@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > bwalker-
> > > >
> > > > Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about
> whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block
> size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are
> you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who
> have made suggestions so far.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put
> something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc -
> the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be
> flying all over that disc.
> > > > >
> > > > > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate
> controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until
> OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to
> create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of
> the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block
> size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition
> aligned....
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways
> OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > > > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > > > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference
> from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based
> on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and
> adding 8GB of Ram.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
2 will be for the OS & Swap
Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.

If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.

We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
3
I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.

My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@...> wrote:
>
> Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
>
> If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
>
> We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
>
4
Yes, you will notice a difference with just the RAID change

Although, I am not sure what you have, but if you have the server space in
that one server, keep those 2 146GB drives in the server and use them as
their own RAID 1 for swap or program files or backups etc, unless you only
have 6 drive bays anyway.


----- Original Message -----
From: "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance


> Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap,
> VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
>
> If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone?
> Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a
> previous post I had made.
>
> We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of
> Ram.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
5
We went thru the same situation & the new RAID setup works great.

We were limited to adding only the four new drives in the RAID 10
configuration, but after moving the DBs over to it, it made a huge
difference.



Make sure you line up the RAID config stripe size when you format the
volume or you will rob performance there.

We're a Dell house and the Dell Server Administrator shows the block
size in the virtual drive info box.

We used 64 bit block size I believe.



We originally added memory, it's been awhile but I think we went from
12GB to 24GB???

We didn't really see a performance difference after that.

We are still on a 32bit OS, so that may be why...



Regards,



Ron Flynn



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ned
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:44 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance





Yes, you will notice a difference with just the RAID change

Although, I am not sure what you have, but if you have the server space
in
that one server, keep those 2 146GB drives in the server and use them as

their own RAID 1 for swap or program files or backups etc, unless you
only
have 6 drive bays anyway.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@...
<mailto:mmcwilliams22%40yahoo.com> >
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance

> Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap,
> VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
>
> If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk
alone?
> Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a
> previous post I had made.
>
> We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of

> Ram.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
)
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
You are the second person to mention aligning your RAID-10 configuration. Can anybody elobrate on this? We will be doing the same thing in two weeks. I would like to get the most out of our RAID-10 as possible.

We have a Dell PowerEdge Server and we are thinking about a RAID-1 for the OS and swap file (Windows 2003 Enterprise 32-bit) and RAID-10 for Vantage 8.03. We are uping the memory from 8 GB to 16 GB.

All and any suggestions would be most helpful. TIA.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "IT Support" <itsupport@...> wrote:
>
> We went thru the same situation & the new RAID setup works great.
>
> We were limited to adding only the four new drives in the RAID 10
> configuration, but after moving the DBs over to it, it made a huge
> difference.
>
>
>
> Make sure you line up the RAID config stripe size when you format the
> volume or you will rob performance there.
>
> We're a Dell house and the Dell Server Administrator shows the block
> size in the virtual drive info box.
>
> We used 64 bit block size I believe.
>
>
>
> We originally added memory, it's been awhile but I think we went from
> 12GB to 24GB???
>
> We didn't really see a performance difference after that.
>
> We are still on a 32bit OS, so that may be why...
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Ron Flynn
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Ned
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:44 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, you will notice a difference with just the RAID change
>
> Although, I am not sure what you have, but if you have the server space
> in
> that one server, keep those 2 146GB drives in the server and use them as
>
> their own RAID 1 for swap or program files or backups etc, unless you
> only
> have 6 drive bays anyway.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@...
> <mailto:mmcwilliams22%40yahoo.com> >
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:07 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance
>
> > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap,
> > VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> >
> > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk
> alone?
> > Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a
> > previous post I had made.
> >
> > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of
>
> > Ram.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
7
From my own experience and point of view...

Some RAID controllers have multiple channels, seperating different drives
onto different channels can be a major improvement, but that ability varies
depending on the case that holds the machine. I know some HP and Dells allow
for varying segmentation of the drive bays.

However, even without the multiple channels, I find it best to not partition
containers if you can avoid it, instead use the RAID configuation to
seperate the disks.

Example with 8 drives, say they are all 146GB.

One way would be to put all 8 into a RAID 10 container, which would give you
584GB of drive space. Then you can divy those up into 1 partition of 50GB
for the OS, 50GB for Swap, 50GB for Program files, 50GB for DB backup files,
and then the remainder for the Vantage DB.

This would not be a fast and efficient use of RAID.

The better way to set this up would be to take setup 3 different RAID
containers. 2 with 2 drives, 1 with 4 Drives. This seperation will give you
a better configuration with better performance by dedicating disks/spindals
to specific tasks. The most important one being database.

I find that many times people are too focused on drive size and processors,
which really isn't the concern an admin should have in regards to the
performance of their systems. RAM and # of drives are the 2 most important
factors for getting great performance.

A system that uses 4 73 GB drives in RAID 10 will out perform a system that
uses 2 146GB drives in RAID 1 with all other hardware being identical. It's
the only reason I really like some of the HP and IBM servers or the use of a
SAN instead of a Dell server, Dell seeming to be the most common. The reason
is because of the number of drives that can be put in the systems. HP and
IBM make use of those physically smaller drives compared to the physically
larger sized drives of most Dell systems. This allows for a smaller rack
footprint, but a much higher spindle count, which will end up in better
performance of the system overall.



----- Original Message -----
From: "randyduly" <randy.duly@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance


> You are the second person to mention aligning your RAID-10 configuration.
> Can anybody elobrate on this? We will be doing the same thing in two
> weeks. I would like to get the most out of our RAID-10 as possible.
>
> We have a Dell PowerEdge Server and we are thinking about a RAID-1 for the
> OS and swap file (Windows 2003 Enterprise 32-bit) and RAID-10 for Vantage
> 8.03. We are uping the memory from 8 GB to 16 GB.
>
> All and any suggestions would be most helpful. TIA.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "IT Support" <itsupport@...> wrote:
>>
>> We went thru the same situation & the new RAID setup works great.
>>
>> We were limited to adding only the four new drives in the RAID 10
>> configuration, but after moving the DBs over to it, it made a huge
>> difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Make sure you line up the RAID config stripe size when you format the
>> volume or you will rob performance there.
>>
>> We're a Dell house and the Dell Server Administrator shows the block
>> size in the virtual drive info box.
>>
>> We used 64 bit block size I believe.
>>
>>
>>
>> We originally added memory, it's been awhile but I think we went from
>> 12GB to 24GB???
>>
>> We didn't really see a performance difference after that.
>>
>> We are still on a 32bit OS, so that may be why...
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron Flynn
>>
>>
>>
>> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Ned
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:44 PM
>> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, you will notice a difference with just the RAID change
>>
>> Although, I am not sure what you have, but if you have the server space
>> in
>> that one server, keep those 2 146GB drives in the server and use them as
>>
>> their own RAID 1 for swap or program files or backups etc, unless you
>> only
>> have 6 drive bays anyway.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@...
>> <mailto:mmcwilliams22%40yahoo.com> >
>> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:07 PM
>> Subject: [Vantage] Changing from Raid 1 to 10 Vantage performance
>>
>> > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap,
>> > VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
>> > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
>> > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
>> >
>> > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk
>> alone?
>> > Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a
>> > previous post I had made.
>> >
>> > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of
>>
>> > Ram.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
>> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>> )
>> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>> and
>> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
8
bwalker-

Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@...> wrote:
>
> I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
>
> My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> >
> > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> >
> > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> >
> > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> >
>
9
Check out: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929491

An observation I made when first experimenting with partition alignment which was posted here a good while back, On my test server that has 12 Gb memory and 4 hyperthreaded cores, before alignment, MRP would barely get CPU usage up to 25 % at times. After using same hardware and Db and aligned partition boundaries, CPU usage during MRP was nearly pegged at 100% across all 8 reported CPUs. This observation leads me to believe that prior to partition alignment, the CPUs were waiting for disk IO.......

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@...> wrote:
>
> bwalker-
>
> Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> >
> > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
> >
> > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > >
> > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > >
> > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> > >
> >
>
10
Here is a good page to describe the benefits of partition alignment.
Don't let the SQL thing throw you off, it is really about alignment.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx

This is a VERY good read, well worth your time.

The long and short of it is that you open a command prompt and use these commands :

To check if a specific partition is aligned, copy and paste this line.

wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index

You will get something like this ... I have multiple RAID arrays/partitions as advised by Ned, myself and others, some are on controller Channel-A and the rest on Channel-B.

C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName>wmic partition get BlockSize,StartingOffset, Name, Index
BlockSize Index Name StartingOffset
512 0 Disk #1, Partition #0 16384
512 0 Disk #2, Partition #0 1048576
512 0 Disk #3, Partition #0 1048576
512 0 Disk #4, Partition #0 1048576
512 0 Disk #0, Partition #0 1048576

I am sure you noticed Disk #1 is not aligned properly. If I had used a windows PE disk to create the partition before running Windows Setup, the system partition they would all be aligned properly ....

To create an aligned partition, you must use the newer version of diskpart.

Unless you have some odd configuration, use 64K block size.

C:>Diskpart
C:>list disk
C:>select disk <DiskNumber>
C:>create partition primary align=1024

Just use 1024, you can afford a few extra bytes before the first sector only, then you know you will align no matter what block size you choose when formating.

C:>assign letter=<DriveLetter>
C:>format fs=ntfs unit=64K label="<label>" nowait

These 2 may not work properly, no problem, just create your drives after the OS install in Disk Management and DON'T use the Default block size ... use 64K.

FYI: Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 now create properly aligned partitions by default .... YEAH, about time !

TIP: An easy way to properly align partitions for your XP installs is to hook up the drive to a Windows 7 box as a slave and create the partition, then put the drive in your XP box to install the XP OS.
If you are even more SAVY you could create a WinPE Boot CD and run diskpart on the drive before the XP OS install.

I hope this helps .... :-)
Neil

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@...> wrote:
>
> bwalker-
>
> Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> >
> > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
> >
> > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > >
> > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > >
> > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> > >
> >
>
11
Thanks everyone for their input. This is most helpful. We will try it out and report our findings.

Randy

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "too_much_hg" <neil_willet@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a good page to describe the benefits of partition alignment.
> Don't let the SQL thing throw you off, it is really about alignment.
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx
>
> This is a VERY good read, well worth your time.
>
> The long and short of it is that you open a command prompt and use these commands :
>
> To check if a specific partition is aligned, copy and paste this line.
>
> wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
>
> You will get something like this ... I have multiple RAID arrays/partitions as advised by Ned, myself and others, some are on controller Channel-A and the rest on Channel-B.
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName>wmic partition get BlockSize,StartingOffset, Name, Index
> BlockSize Index Name StartingOffset
> 512 0 Disk #1, Partition #0 16384
> 512 0 Disk #2, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #3, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #4, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #0, Partition #0 1048576
>
> I am sure you noticed Disk #1 is not aligned properly. If I had used a windows PE disk to create the partition before running Windows Setup, the system partition they would all be aligned properly ....
>
> To create an aligned partition, you must use the newer version of diskpart.
>
> Unless you have some odd configuration, use 64K block size.
>
> C:>Diskpart
> C:>list disk
> C:>select disk <DiskNumber>
> C:>create partition primary align=1024
>
> Just use 1024, you can afford a few extra bytes before the first sector only, then you know you will align no matter what block size you choose when formating.
>
> C:>assign letter=<DriveLetter>
> C:>format fs=ntfs unit=64K label="<label>" nowait
>
> These 2 may not work properly, no problem, just create your drives after the OS install in Disk Management and DON'T use the Default block size ... use 64K.
>
> FYI: Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 now create properly aligned partitions by default .... YEAH, about time !
>
> TIP: An easy way to properly align partitions for your XP installs is to hook up the drive to a Windows 7 box as a slave and create the partition, then put the drive in your XP box to install the XP OS.
> If you are even more SAVY you could create a WinPE Boot CD and run diskpart on the drive before the XP OS install.
>
> I hope this helps .... :-)
> Neil
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@> wrote:
> >
> > bwalker-
> >
> > Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
> > >
> > > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > > >
> > > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > > >
> > > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
12
Neil,

Thank you very much for this alignment info....however, I have one question: I noticed you recommended a 64K NTFS block size. However, the Progress database is only a 4K block size, and I've been reading that you shouldn't use an NTFS block size larger than the database block size. Maybe you are on a SQL database...we are on Progress...that might explain the difference. Thanks,

Adam Whipp


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "too_much_hg" <neil_willet@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a good page to describe the benefits of partition alignment.
> Don't let the SQL thing throw you off, it is really about alignment.
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx
>
> This is a VERY good read, well worth your time.
>
> The long and short of it is that you open a command prompt and use these commands :
>
> To check if a specific partition is aligned, copy and paste this line.
>
> wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
>
> You will get something like this ... I have multiple RAID arrays/partitions as advised by Ned, myself and others, some are on controller Channel-A and the rest on Channel-B.
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName>wmic partition get BlockSize,StartingOffset, Name, Index
> BlockSize Index Name StartingOffset
> 512 0 Disk #1, Partition #0 16384
> 512 0 Disk #2, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #3, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #4, Partition #0 1048576
> 512 0 Disk #0, Partition #0 1048576
>
> I am sure you noticed Disk #1 is not aligned properly. If I had used a windows PE disk to create the partition before running Windows Setup, the system partition they would all be aligned properly ....
>
> To create an aligned partition, you must use the newer version of diskpart.
>
> Unless you have some odd configuration, use 64K block size.
>
> C:>Diskpart
> C:>list disk
> C:>select disk <DiskNumber>
> C:>create partition primary align=1024
>
> Just use 1024, you can afford a few extra bytes before the first sector only, then you know you will align no matter what block size you choose when formating.
>
> C:>assign letter=<DriveLetter>
> C:>format fs=ntfs unit=64K label="<label>" nowait
>
> These 2 may not work properly, no problem, just create your drives after the OS install in Disk Management and DON'T use the Default block size ... use 64K.
>
> FYI: Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 now create properly aligned partitions by default .... YEAH, about time !
>
> TIP: An easy way to properly align partitions for your XP installs is to hook up the drive to a Windows 7 box as a slave and create the partition, then put the drive in your XP box to install the XP OS.
> If you are even more SAVY you could create a WinPE Boot CD and run diskpart on the drive before the XP OS install.
>
> I hope this helps .... :-)
> Neil
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@> wrote:
> >
> > bwalker-
> >
> > Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
> > >
> > > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > > >
> > > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > > >
> > > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
13
Adam,

You are welcome, glad to help.

You are correct, I am on SQL 2005.

I did some quick checking on the recommended Block Size recommendations for Progress databases and it looks like the best practice would be either 4k or 8k Block Size.

I am not an expert at Progress DB Config, but there are commands to run to specify Block Size as well as check the size currently configured.

Therefore my recommendation would be 64K for SQL and (4K or 8K) for Progress, making sure they match. (4K or 8K or 64K) would likely have little impact on the OS partition so you could just do all partitions the same.

Regards,
Neil

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "adam.whipp" <adam.whipp@...> wrote:
>
> Neil,
>
> Thank you very much for this alignment info....however, I have one question: I noticed you recommended a 64K NTFS block size. However, the Progress database is only a 4K block size, and I've been reading that you shouldn't use an NTFS block size larger than the database block size. Maybe you are on a SQL database...we are on Progress...that might explain the difference. Thanks,
>
> Adam Whipp
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "too_much_hg" <neil_willet@> wrote:
> >
> > Here is a good page to describe the benefits of partition alignment.
> > Don't let the SQL thing throw you off, it is really about alignment.
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx
> >
> > This is a VERY good read, well worth your time.
> >
> > The long and short of it is that you open a command prompt and use these commands :
> >
> > To check if a specific partition is aligned, copy and paste this line.
> >
> > wmic partition get BlockSize, StartingOffset, Name, Index
> >
> > You will get something like this ... I have multiple RAID arrays/partitions as advised by Ned, myself and others, some are on controller Channel-A and the rest on Channel-B.
> >
> > C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName>wmic partition get BlockSize,StartingOffset, Name, Index
> > BlockSize Index Name StartingOffset
> > 512 0 Disk #1, Partition #0 16384
> > 512 0 Disk #2, Partition #0 1048576
> > 512 0 Disk #3, Partition #0 1048576
> > 512 0 Disk #4, Partition #0 1048576
> > 512 0 Disk #0, Partition #0 1048576
> >
> > I am sure you noticed Disk #1 is not aligned properly. If I had used a windows PE disk to create the partition before running Windows Setup, the system partition they would all be aligned properly ....
> >
> > To create an aligned partition, you must use the newer version of diskpart.
> >
> > Unless you have some odd configuration, use 64K block size.
> >
> > C:>Diskpart
> > C:>list disk
> > C:>select disk <DiskNumber>
> > C:>create partition primary align=1024
> >
> > Just use 1024, you can afford a few extra bytes before the first sector only, then you know you will align no matter what block size you choose when formating.
> >
> > C:>assign letter=<DriveLetter>
> > C:>format fs=ntfs unit=64K label="<label>" nowait
> >
> > These 2 may not work properly, no problem, just create your drives after the OS install in Disk Management and DON'T use the Default block size ... use 64K.
> >
> > FYI: Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 now create properly aligned partitions by default .... YEAH, about time !
> >
> > TIP: An easy way to properly align partitions for your XP installs is to hook up the drive to a Windows 7 box as a slave and create the partition, then put the drive in your XP box to install the XP OS.
> > If you are even more SAVY you could create a WinPE Boot CD and run diskpart on the drive before the XP OS install.
> >
> > I hope this helps .... :-)
> > Neil
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@> wrote:
> > >
> > > bwalker-
> > >
> > > Can you elabrate on the aligned partition. Are you talking about whether you have a 4k Vantage DB block size vs. an 8k Vantage block size? How can you tell if you are using 4k or 8k block size? Or are you talking about something else? TIA. Also thanks to everybody who have made suggestions so far.
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "bw2868bond" <bwalker@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would imagine so, as is sits now, if the OS wants to put something in the swap file and open edge needs some thing from disc - the head on your raid 1 drive partitioned into 3 pieces is going to be flying all over that disc.
> > > >
> > > > My only suggestion would be put the raid 10 dirves on seperate controller channel, if possible, and do not create the partition until OS is installed and patched - then use DISKPART from cmd window to create an aligned partition, with the alignment offset a multiple of the scsi sector size which should be a multiple of your db block size.... It sure seems to make a difference having the partition aligned....
> > > >
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mmcwilliams22" <mmcwilliams22@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Right now we are sitting on 2 146GB 15k Drives split 3 ways OS, Swap, VantageDB. I am planning on getting 6- 73GB 15k drives
> > > > > 2 will be for the OS & Swap
> > > > > Then the other 4 will be to RAID 10 the DB and openedge files.
> > > > >
> > > > > If one had to say, should there be a noticable difference from disk alone? Just need to justify the cost. I am doing this based on comments on a previous post I had made.
> > > > >
> > > > > We will also be moving from Server std to enterprise and adding 8GB of Ram.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>