Make to Order/Make to Stock?

system · October 11, 2001, 10:52am

Cameron, you should write a book. :-)

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Cameron A. Janish
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

It is nice to see someone else that is passionate and has devoted and lot of
time and thought to a subject. Not to continue you soap box, but one of the
issues companies should think about when they are implementing new software
is about their business and how it is run. Not what have we been doing for
the last 40 years, but what is our business about, what do we want to know
about our business, and how important are certain pieces of information.
Even if this wasn't done prior to implementation it can still be done and
changes to make Vantage and your business more what it should be can always
be done. In addition, your company should continue to ask this question and
the answers become part of your business evolution.

Nothing stands still. If you are growing and moving forward, growing does
not just mean more sales, but working better and smarter, then you have to
be changing. Things that don't change die.

As one soap box to another, that was terrific and a great explanation too.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Staudahar [mailto:jstauduhar@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 09:07 AM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups. Com (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

Hi,
A subject near and dear to my heart! Many job shops are in denial
that they actually produce to inventory. In my opinion you want to make
this decision based on how your business is run. If you receive an
individual order and you make those parts on one job and ship them, then I
would link the sales order to a job. If you receive blanket orders or
orders with multiple releases and you expect to make this product for a
certain time period I would consider running to inventory. If your
customers provide you with an overall contract with a forecast and expect
you to have a certain amount of safety stock or release Kanbans in a less
amount of time than your total lead time I would definitely consider
running
to inventory. You can run both ways if you have mixed modes, but your
users
have to have a little more training. We run all of our production to
inventory, but our R&D orders to jobs.
The pro's to running to inventory:
Better control of inventory amounts
More consistent run quantities, you are running to a mfg. lot size
that make sense to production
Better ability to even out schedules and work flow
Close jobs when production is complete, therefore better ability to
see financially how production is running
Better utilization of material and setup times
Better data collection if you have only one job on production floor
at a time, instead of multiples
The con's to running to inventory:
Loss of ability to see profitability by job on production detail
report (there are other ways to see this)
More training of users to use time phase reports to find information

I would definitely unlink the sales orders if you are running to
inventory and run to stock. We have been linking the sales orders and
jobs,
but then receiving to inventory. This makes your time phase, and
suggestions really messy and hard to use. I would always tell Vantage
exactly how my business is running. Again, I would emphasize that you
want
to make this decision on how your business runs. But don't confuse what
the
meaning of inventory is in Vantage. Inventory can be product that you
have
PO's to run on. If you are a job shop and put three shipping releases on
one job, you are creating inventory but just leaving it on the job as WIP
until it is shipped. I also think it is important to be using the
scheduling module if you are running to inventory, because you are no
longer
running to ship dates, but need to run operations by due dates (better
yet,
start operations by start date!). I suppose it is hard to tell that I am
passionate about this subject. If you want to talk further about it feel
free to contact me. I'll get off of my soap box now!
Thanks,
Judy Stauduhar
Synovis Interventional Solutions
jstauduhar@...
651-792-2874

From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 10, 2001, 4:45pm

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

system · October 10, 2001, 5:13pm

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Take one part as a test, make it to stock and see what you think?

You will find that you live in the time phase screen and with the time phase
exception report instead of the job hub.

User will complain that they have to use different routes through vantage to
get the same data.
The job button will be grayed out in order tracker, you will have to go to
part tracker-time phase-then job tracker.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

system · October 11, 2001, 10:07am

Hi,
A subject near and dear to my heart! Many job shops are in denial
that they actually produce to inventory. In my opinion you want to make
this decision based on how your business is run. If you receive an
individual order and you make those parts on one job and ship them, then I
would link the sales order to a job. If you receive blanket orders or
orders with multiple releases and you expect to make this product for a
certain time period I would consider running to inventory. If your
customers provide you with an overall contract with a forecast and expect
you to have a certain amount of safety stock or release Kanbans in a less
amount of time than your total lead time I would definitely consider running
to inventory. You can run both ways if you have mixed modes, but your users
have to have a little more training. We run all of our production to
inventory, but our R&D orders to jobs.
The pro's to running to inventory:
Better control of inventory amounts
More consistent run quantities, you are running to a mfg. lot size
that make sense to production
Better ability to even out schedules and work flow
Close jobs when production is complete, therefore better ability to
see financially how production is running
Better utilization of material and setup times
Better data collection if you have only one job on production floor
at a time, instead of multiples
The con's to running to inventory:
Loss of ability to see profitability by job on production detail
report (there are other ways to see this)
More training of users to use time phase reports to find information

I would definitely unlink the sales orders if you are running to
inventory and run to stock. We have been linking the sales orders and jobs,
but then receiving to inventory. This makes your time phase, and
suggestions really messy and hard to use. I would always tell Vantage
exactly how my business is running. Again, I would emphasize that you want
to make this decision on how your business runs. But don't confuse what the
meaning of inventory is in Vantage. Inventory can be product that you have
PO's to run on. If you are a job shop and put three shipping releases on
one job, you are creating inventory but just leaving it on the job as WIP
until it is shipped. I also think it is important to be using the
scheduling module if you are running to inventory, because you are no longer
running to ship dates, but need to run operations by due dates (better yet,
start operations by start date!). I suppose it is hard to tell that I am
passionate about this subject. If you want to talk further about it feel
free to contact me. I'll get off of my soap box now!
Thanks,
Judy Stauduhar
Synovis Interventional Solutions
jstauduhar@...
651-792-2874

From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

system · October 11, 2001, 10:41am

It is nice to see someone else that is passionate and has devoted and lot of
time and thought to a subject. Not to continue you soap box, but one of the
issues companies should think about when they are implementing new software
is about their business and how it is run. Not what have we been doing for
the last 40 years, but what is our business about, what do we want to know
about our business, and how important are certain pieces of information.
Even if this wasn't done prior to implementation it can still be done and
changes to make Vantage and your business more what it should be can always
be done. In addition, your company should continue to ask this question and
the answers become part of your business evolution.

Nothing stands still. If you are growing and moving forward, growing does
not just mean more sales, but working better and smarter, then you have to
be changing. Things that don't change die.

As one soap box to another, that was terrific and a great explanation too.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Staudahar [mailto:jstauduhar@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 09:07 AM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups. Com (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

Hi,
A subject near and dear to my heart! Many job shops are in denial
that they actually produce to inventory. In my opinion you want to make
this decision based on how your business is run. If you receive an
individual order and you make those parts on one job and ship them, then I
would link the sales order to a job. If you receive blanket orders or
orders with multiple releases and you expect to make this product for a
certain time period I would consider running to inventory. If your
customers provide you with an overall contract with a forecast and expect
you to have a certain amount of safety stock or release Kanbans in a less
amount of time than your total lead time I would definitely consider
running
to inventory. You can run both ways if you have mixed modes, but your
users
have to have a little more training. We run all of our production to
inventory, but our R&D orders to jobs.
The pro's to running to inventory:
Better control of inventory amounts
More consistent run quantities, you are running to a mfg. lot size
that make sense to production
Better ability to even out schedules and work flow
Close jobs when production is complete, therefore better ability to
see financially how production is running
Better utilization of material and setup times
Better data collection if you have only one job on production floor
at a time, instead of multiples
The con's to running to inventory:
Loss of ability to see profitability by job on production detail
report (there are other ways to see this)
More training of users to use time phase reports to find information

I would definitely unlink the sales orders if you are running to
inventory and run to stock. We have been linking the sales orders and
jobs,
but then receiving to inventory. This makes your time phase, and
suggestions really messy and hard to use. I would always tell Vantage
exactly how my business is running. Again, I would emphasize that you
want
to make this decision on how your business runs. But don't confuse what
the
meaning of inventory is in Vantage. Inventory can be product that you
have
PO's to run on. If you are a job shop and put three shipping releases on
one job, you are creating inventory but just leaving it on the job as WIP
until it is shipped. I also think it is important to be using the
scheduling module if you are running to inventory, because you are no
longer
running to ship dates, but need to run operations by due dates (better
yet,
start operations by start date!). I suppose it is hard to tell that I am
passionate about this subject. If you want to talk further about it feel
free to contact me. I'll get off of my soap box now!
Thanks,
Judy Stauduhar
Synovis Interventional Solutions
jstauduhar@...
651-792-2874

From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 11, 2001, 10:49am

Judy,

I agree 100 % with your email. We went though the same philosophical
battle here. The company had "Always" made to order and then one day we
picked up a very large customer that insisted on a 5-day delivery time for
100's of different items. One group in-house totally insisted that this
could be done on a make to order basis. The plan ? We would make to order
inventory in the requested batch sizes and then "Stage" the inventory along
the wall in our shp/rcv department. When the customer called for delivery
we would just put a "Order" on a truck and ship it to them. Thus avoiding
the make to stock concept.

We had several people, myself included, trying to persuade the company that
this would be a mess but we were unable to overcome the "We've always made
to order" mentality. After about 9 months we had NO CLUE how much
inventory we had or where it was. At that point the edict finally came down
from the top of the hill to put ALL existing parts into inventory and make
to stock/ship from stock from that point forward.

Of course 2 things happened:
(1) We then knew exactly how much inventory we had by customer item number
and where it was. Yup, you guessed it - we had a BUNCH more inventory then
we thought. Oops ...
(2) When the folks on the floor were told to put everything into stock -
they did just that - including work in process parts that weren't done. We
had customers calling us for about 6 months asking why we were shipping 1/2
done parts. Somewhat embarrassing ...

Oh well, baby steps right ?

On other thing. For any customer who you are going to switch to a make to
stock mode I STRONGLY recommend the following:
* A very clear contract that spells out exactly how much inventory you can
have in the pipeline that the customer will be responsible for.

Why? If you are making stock in advance of immediate needs you run into
several problems.
(1) Customer wants a revision change - does the customer have to absorb all
inventory in the pipeline before you will agree to the revision change ?
(2) Customer decides to discontinue an item or their usage falls
dramatically. Will they go ahead and purchase the pipeline and if so, in
what time frame.
(3) The customer decides they don't like you anymore and want to go play
with someone else. Are they under contract to purchase all agreed upon
inventory ?
(4) Your sales and production control departments HAVE to be very careful
not to overstep these contracts or the inventory you eat may far out weight
the savings you earned by running larger lots with smaller setup charges.
(5) Also, keep in mind that you will actually need storage racks to hold
this inventory with bin locations assigned. This also represents additional
cost.

I'd be much happier if life was simple ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Staudahar [mailto:jstauduhar@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:07 AM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups. Com (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

Hi,
A subject near and dear to my heart! Many job shops are in denial
that they actually produce to inventory. In my opinion you want to make
this decision based on how your business is run. If you receive an
individual order and you make those parts on one job and ship them, then I
would link the sales order to a job. If you receive blanket orders or
orders with multiple releases and you expect to make this product for a
certain time period I would consider running to inventory. If your
customers provide you with an overall contract with a forecast and expect
you to have a certain amount of safety stock or release Kanbans in a less
amount of time than your total lead time I would definitely consider running
to inventory. You can run both ways if you have mixed modes, but your users
have to have a little more training. We run all of our production to
inventory, but our R&D orders to jobs.
The pro's to running to inventory:
Better control of inventory amounts
More consistent run quantities, you are running to a mfg. lot size
that make sense to production
Better ability to even out schedules and work flow
Close jobs when production is complete, therefore better ability to
see financially how production is running
Better utilization of material and setup times
Better data collection if you have only one job on production floor
at a time, instead of multiples
The con's to running to inventory:
Loss of ability to see profitability by job on production detail
report (there are other ways to see this)
More training of users to use time phase reports to find information

I would definitely unlink the sales orders if you are running to
inventory and run to stock. We have been linking the sales orders and jobs,
but then receiving to inventory. This makes your time phase, and
suggestions really messy and hard to use. I would always tell Vantage
exactly how my business is running. Again, I would emphasize that you want
to make this decision on how your business runs. But don't confuse what the
meaning of inventory is in Vantage. Inventory can be product that you have
PO's to run on. If you are a job shop and put three shipping releases on
one job, you are creating inventory but just leaving it on the job as WIP
until it is shipped. I also think it is important to be using the
scheduling module if you are running to inventory, because you are no longer
running to ship dates, but need to run operations by due dates (better yet,
start operations by start date!). I suppose it is hard to tell that I am
passionate about this subject. If you want to talk further about it feel
free to contact me. I'll get off of my soap box now!
Thanks,
Judy Stauduhar
Synovis Interventional Solutions
jstauduhar@...
651-792-2874

From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:44 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Make to Order/Make to Stock?

We are looking at simplifying the steps that the inspection/shipping
department performs. We are also looking at simplifying travelers. We
have quite a few jobs that we complete 2 weeks to 2 months before they
are due. The parts, after inspection, go on a shelf and wait for the
shipping window. Right now, the job stays open (and on WIP lists, etc)
until the job ships. Since there is no inventory transaction, the parts'
locations are unknown to Vantage. The shipping operation has to have an
accurate address on it, since it is used to make the shipping label.

What could we expect if we manufacture everything to inventory and ship
from there?

Should we continue linking orders to jobs? I have a nice progress
routine that checks orders against jobs and warns if the job quantity or
date do not support the orders linked to it.

Should we have all the orders pull from inventory to ship? This would
unlink jobs & orders and make things a little harder to track who's
making what and why.

Any enthusiastic success stories or cautionary tales would be
appreciated...

Standing on the edge with bungee cord on foot, I am...

Greg Krumrey
Information Manager
Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130
fax: 636-940-8933
email me: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt email: mailto:greg@...
visit us at: www.patriot-machine.com

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]