More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Dave/Brian,
I agree that some remote printing can be accomplished using the supplied
printer RDP protocols.
In fact, I read the recommeded document over a year ago when working in
dispersed computing enviroments over RDP after hurricane Katrina.

The most advantageous reason for a product like ThinPrint is you might not
have control over the OS being used as the RDP client pc, nor know ahead of
time what printer they are going to use.

And, as listed in the document, the printer name in the inf file used for
the driver install must match the client device driver installed.

So, in my case, I did find something last year where I installed driver for
a specific HP printer that just happened to be listed differently in the XP
version of the driver than how it was in the 98 version. So, printing did
not work as easily, and I was forced to go find additional drivers to use.


So, while I am in agreement that a lot of RDP printing can be controlled
from within 2003 and RDP client, especially if using a TS for connecting
from within a LAN, for remote connections that require printing from the RDP
session to the client PC at the house (or wherever), I remain a huge
ThinPrint fan, and I can not wait for Microsoft to implement their
technology into the main RDP releases (paid for, of course)

Carey


>From: dave.miller2@...
>Reply-To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:06:10 +0000
>
>Brian,
>
>Although ThinPrint is a nice product that works well you can obtain your
>goal of printing without spending the money on ThinPrint. Review this
>article for complete details on the process. I have some of my own notes
>that I will try to track down and send you as well.
>http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?ID=62
>
>Dave Miller
>Prince Industries, Inc.
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Brian Stenglein" <bstenglein@...>
>Since there is a nice lively discussion on TS I'm going to pose a
>question.
>
>Our Treasurer is out on medical leave and we set her up with a laptop
>at home with a terminal server connection which gets her to
>everything she wants to see. She is unable to print what she see's
>in TS to her local printer, for obvious reasons. We have Windows
>Server 2000 on our Terminal Server. I've been told it is easy to fix
>with Windows Server 2003. Does anyone know if it is possible with
>2000?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brian Stenglein
>Clow Stamping Co.
>
>--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said
>that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with
>printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I
>can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot
>of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us
>and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10,
>which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus
>Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has
>not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM,
>access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from
>China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who
>have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are
>proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with
>5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow
>growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
>allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all
>the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why
>bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra
>grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
>there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
>the
> > previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
>Vantage at
> > remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support
>home
> > users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how
>I am
> > getting the feeling I am being over sold.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Todd Caughey
> > Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
>privileged
> > information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
>the
> > sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy
>any
> > copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person
>other
> > than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
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Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20 people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China. Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named" users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15 CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Todd,

We used to use citrix w/terminal server CAL's years ago... but since
2003 Server, we do not and have no need for it. For our needs, 2003
server does everything citrix did and is even easier to manage. We have
a similar set-up as you describe. We have one remote facility running
vantage over a T1 using remote access and we have lots of users who use
remote access from their homes or while traveling (myself included.)
Those people use remote access for vantage as well as other
applications. However, for our email remotely we use a web browser
version of outlook.

I do not directly manager the remote server anymore so I do not have all
the details, but I might be able to answer some questions or ask.

HTH,
Sarah


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@...
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth
the proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
allowing mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed
control of remote sessions (for support). But since this also is
requiring all the components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
wondering "why bother with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
there any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
the previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
Vantage at remote sites but if you had to run other applications or
support home users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial?
Some how I am getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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Yahoo! Groups Links
Todd,



If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said that
cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with printing,
I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I can do
this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot of 'flack'
toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us and I
rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10, which
it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.



Todd



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@...
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
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than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Exactly! The quote in front of me has 15 "Windows Terminal Server CAL 2003" plus the 5 "Metaframe Presentation Server" licenses at $231 each. If everyone is happy with TS alone I am not seeing enough added value in Citrix to justify that. Maybe if there was enough added security or encryption or a performance benefit but if I can make do with just TS I think that's the way to go and only add Citrix if there is some show stopper without it.

Also, since I am now doubting the proposal....they are recommending a dedicated HP DL 150 server (w/ 2GB RAM) to support between 5 and 10 concurrent sessions with Citrix. Would this be different (higher or lower) with just TS? What about the requirements for Vantage 8.0 down the road? Will I be able to run at least 5 remote users on this server?

Thanks,
-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:19 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Todd,

If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said that
cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with printing,
I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I can do
this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot of 'flack'
toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us and I
rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10, which
it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups <mailto:Vantage%40Yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five users but is
growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a VMware Server (so
they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan) and really like
this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain to install and
configure software on. Some issues we have though are with printing
to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of that, CAD is a
trial in futility on a rdp type session.

I am now looking at switching everything over to straight VPN
access. From a tech support document provided by Epicor I have found
that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to load Vantage and
Progress locally on a client and then just connect to the
Vantage /database server for pure data interaction. I have not had a
chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this will be fast
enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a solution over
Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know what the downside
would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable performance over a
T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.

Marc

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said
that
> cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with
printing,
> I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
> sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I
can do
> this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot
of 'flack'
> toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us
and I
> rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
> only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10,
which
> it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: Vantage@...
> Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus
Windows
> Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
>
> Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has
not
> been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
> people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
> running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM,
access
> network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
> broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
> small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from
China.
> Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
> access from at home.
>
> I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who
have
> done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are
proposing
> a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with
5 "named"
> users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow
growth the
> proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
> CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
allowing
> mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
> remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all
the
> components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why
bother
> with Citrix?"
>
> What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra
grand
> for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
there
> any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
the
> previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
Vantage at
> remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support
home
> users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how
I am
> getting the feeling I am being over sold.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy
any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person
other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Todd,



After finding a new consultant(or not using one at all for this project)
I would say go with more RAM. It is not really all that expensive. If
you have V8 in your sites at some point definitely use more RAM. For
five V8 users I would assume you are safe with 4GB RAM. I went with 8GB
on a server hosting 15 users. Haven't hit it with all of them yet so I
can't speak to actual performance. I got a server spec from Ben Nixon at
Epicor and it recommended 6GB RAM for 18-20 users if I remember
correctly.



On a side note, Dell is offering 30% off of PowerEdge Rack Servers
through EOM. I just bought a PE1950 with a Quad Core processor, 4GB RAM
and a 4 disk 220GB SAS RAID 5 for $3300.00.



Todd



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Exactly! The quote in front of me has 15 "Windows Terminal Server CAL
2003" plus the 5 "Metaframe Presentation Server" licenses at $231 each.
If everyone is happy with TS alone I am not seeing enough added value in
Citrix to justify that. Maybe if there was enough added security or
encryption or a performance benefit but if I can make do with just TS I
think that's the way to go and only add Citrix if there is some show
stopper without it.

Also, since I am now doubting the proposal....they are recommending a
dedicated HP DL 150 server (w/ 2GB RAM) to support between 5 and 10
concurrent sessions with Citrix. Would this be different (higher or
lower) with just TS? What about the requirements for Vantage 8.0 down
the road? Will I be able to run at least 5 remote users on this server?

Thanks,
-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]On
Behalf Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:19 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Todd,

If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said that
cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with printing,
I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I can do
this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot of 'flack'
toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us and I
rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10, which
it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups <mailto:Vantage%40Yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a VPN but was not
happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to with Terminal
Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can understand the
screen space being an issue as I have been using TS to program V8 and
could really use a second monitor for that.



Todd



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of mjhoney71
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five users but is
growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a VMware Server (so
they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan) and really like
this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain to install and
configure software on. Some issues we have though are with printing
to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of that, CAD is a
trial in futility on a rdp type session.

I am now looking at switching everything over to straight VPN
access. From a tech support document provided by Epicor I have found
that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to load Vantage and
Progress locally on a client and then just connect to the
Vantage /database server for pure data interaction. I have not had a
chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this will be fast
enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a solution over
Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know what the downside
would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable performance over a
T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.

Marc

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said
that
> cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with
printing,
> I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
> sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I
can do
> this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot
of 'flack'
> toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us
and I
> rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
> only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10,
which
> it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: Vantage@...
> Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus
Windows
> Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
>
> Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has
not
> been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
> people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
> running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM,
access
> network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
> broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
> small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from
China.
> Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
> access from at home.
>
> I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who
have
> done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are
proposing
> a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with
5 "named"
> users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow
growth the
> proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
> CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
allowing
> mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
> remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all
the
> components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why
bother
> with Citrix?"
>
> What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra
grand
> for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
there
> any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
the
> previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
Vantage at
> remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support
home
> users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how
I am
> getting the feeling I am being over sold.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy
any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person
other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I use a combination of VPN and RDP as well as a T-1. The T-1 users can
use Vantage 8.0 on their local computers or our 2003 TS server, and well
network printing is not a problem. LAN to LAN VPN users can use Vantage
8.0 on their computer sometimes (depending on connection) or RDP, and
network printing is not a problem. Client VPN to our LAN VPN users can
again either use Vantage on their computers or RDP depending on
connection and network printing only if I share the client printer. I do
not use RDP with printing due to all the printers that show up on the TS
server. It confuses folks. There is no way you are going to be able to
run 6.1 over a T-1 or VPN without using some type of remote control
software whether it be Terminal Server, Citrix, or Windows XP RDP (We
tried it, some windows take over 5 minutes to open). Windows 2003 TS is
a lot better than Windows 2000 TS but it does require those pesky
licenses. Of course you can't do 3-D CAD work. Another trick is to turn
down the colors on 2003 TS to 8 bit color. With 16 bit color our Europe
users were really slow.



Joe Luster

Cold Jet



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of mjhoney71
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five users but is
growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a VMware Server (so
they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan) and really like
this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain to install and
configure software on. Some issues we have though are with printing
to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of that, CAD is a
trial in futility on a rdp type session.

I am now looking at switching everything over to straight VPN
access. From a tech support document provided by Epicor I have found
that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to load Vantage and
Progress locally on a client and then just connect to the
Vantage /database server for pure data interaction. I have not had a
chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this will be fast
enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a solution over
Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know what the downside
would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable performance over a
T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.

Marc

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said
that
> cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with
printing,
> I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
> sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I
can do
> this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot
of 'flack'
> toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us
and I
> rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
> only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10,
which
> it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: Vantage@...
> Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus
Windows
> Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
>
> Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has
not
> been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
> people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
> running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM,
access
> network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
> broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
> small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from
China.
> Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
> access from at home.
>
> I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who
have
> done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are
proposing
> a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with
5 "named"
> users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow
growth the
> proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
> CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
allowing
> mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
> remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all
the
> components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why
bother
> with Citrix?"
>
> What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra
grand
> for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
there
> any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
the
> previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
Vantage at
> remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support
home
> users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how
I am
> getting the feeling I am being over sold.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy
any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person
other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home."

Todd,

You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very good low cost, no
overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.

Patrick Winter



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a VPN but was not
happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to with Terminal
Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can understand the
screen space being an issue as I have been using TS to program V8 and
could really use a second monitor for that.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of mjhoney71
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five users but is
growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a VMware Server (so
they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan) and really like
this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain to install and
configure software on. Some issues we have though are with printing
to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of that, CAD is a
trial in futility on a rdp type session.

I am now looking at switching everything over to straight VPN
access. From a tech support document provided by Epicor I have found
that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to load Vantage and
Progress locally on a client and then just connect to the
Vantage /database server for pure data interaction. I have not had a
chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this will be fast
enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a solution over
Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know what the downside
would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable performance over a
T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.

Marc

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said
that
> cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with
printing,
> I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
> sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I
can do
> this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot
of 'flack'
> toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us
and I
> rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
> only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10,
which
> it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: Vantage@...
> Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus
Windows
> Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
>
> Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has
not
> been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
> people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
> running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM,
access
> network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
> broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
> small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from
China.
> Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
> access from at home.
>
> I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who
have
> done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are
proposing
> a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with
5 "named"
> users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow
growth the
> proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
> CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support,
allowing
> mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
> remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all
the
> components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why
bother
> with Citrix?"
>
> What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra
grand
> for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are
there
> any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from
the
> previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for
Vantage at
> remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support
home
> users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how
I am
> getting the feeling I am being over sold.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy
any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person
other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I decided to go with Citrix for the following reasons;



#1 Remote access: Citrix Access Gateway is a great secure way
of connecting into the system.

2 Citrix Program Neighborhood Agent: Allows in-house
clients to run published apps which appear like locally installed apps.

3 Application control: Ability to allow clients to only those
apps you want them access to on the server.

4 Printing: Completely effortless with Citrix 4.0. Complete
nightmare in Win 2000. I have heard it is better in Win2K3.



Hope this helps.



Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@...
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also, you can remote control user's sessions with them in TS 2003(as
well as 2000). I agree to the why bother with Citrix question. I think
consultants can make a lot more money with Citrix than TS. TS is so easy
and MS doesn't allow VARs to resell the CALs for much profit unlike
Citrix. Also I have an IT intern who taught me more about offering
remote assistance. Instead of taking over a client's PC with RDP and
turning their screen black, offer to remote assist them. We set this up
in a GPO that automatically checks the box in the computer properties to
allow remote assistance requests. I click on my Desktop and hit F1. This
brings of Windows XP help and support screen. I then click on the item
Use Tools and then over in the column on the left hand side I select
offer remote assistance. I type in the IP or computer name a viola both
me and the end user can see his screen! Makes troubleshooting and
training easy for a one on one setting.



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@...
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One more thing I like about Citrix, its load balancing calculation is
better than that of Windows. I don't remember the exact detail, but
could fish it out if required.



Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:19 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Todd,

If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said that
cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with printing,
I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I can do
this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot of 'flack'
toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us and I
rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10, which
it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@... <mailto:Vantage%40Yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Especially with 8.0 requirements.



Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:57 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



Todd,

After finding a new consultant(or not using one at all for this project)
I would say go with more RAM. It is not really all that expensive. If
you have V8 in your sites at some point definitely use more RAM. For
five V8 users I would assume you are safe with 4GB RAM. I went with 8GB
on a server hosting 15 users. Haven't hit it with all of them yet so I
can't speak to actual performance. I got a server spec from Ben Nixon at
Epicor and it recommended 6GB RAM for 18-20 users if I remember
correctly.

On a side note, Dell is offering 30% off of PowerEdge Rack Servers
through EOM. I just bought a PE1950 with a Quad Core processor, 4GB RAM
and a 4 disk 220GB SAS RAID 5 for $3300.00.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Exactly! The quote in front of me has 15 "Windows Terminal Server CAL
2003" plus the 5 "Metaframe Presentation Server" licenses at $231 each.
If everyone is happy with TS alone I am not seeing enough added value in
Citrix to justify that. Maybe if there was enough added security or
encryption or a performance benefit but if I can make do with just TS I
think that's the way to go and only add Citrix if there is some show
stopper without it.

Also, since I am now doubting the proposal....they are recommending a
dedicated HP DL 150 server (w/ 2GB RAM) to support between 5 and 10
concurrent sessions with Citrix. Would this be different (higher or
lower) with just TS? What about the requirements for Vantage 8.0 down
the road? Will I be able to run at least 5 remote users on this server?

Thanks,
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]On
Behalf Of Todd Hofert
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:19 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Todd,

If I understand what you are saying, there is nothing being said that
cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no problem with printing,
I map shares via log in script and I can remotely control user
sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote PC, however I can do
this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I read a lot of 'flack'
toward TS on this list, but personally, it works very well for us and I
rarely have to pay any attention to supporting that environment. The
only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each for packs of 10, which
it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: Vantage@Yahoogroups <mailto:Vantage%40Yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

Having just reviewed the threads last June about Citrix versus Windows
Terminal Services I have a few more questions...

Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote access (which has not
been set up yet) beyond one small office using Vantage to be 15-20
people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with more later) and
running a variety of applications (Vantage, Access, Outlook, CRM, access
network shares, etc...). Most of these would be from home using
broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two connections would be from a
small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4 connections from China.
Most immediately need is for our sales people and our exec staff to
access from at home.

I have put this out for a proposal from our local consultants who have
done a lot of work for us over the past few years and they are proposing
a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business version with 5 "named"
users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in order to allow growth the
proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable" connections and TS 15
CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced printer support, allowing
mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing shadowed control of
remote sessions (for support). But since this also is requiring all the
components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me wondering "why bother
with Citrix?"

What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it worh the extra grand
for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use Citrix anymore? Are there
any advantages in one over the other for Vantage 8.0? I know from the
previous thread there are a lot of people running just TS for Vantage at
remote sites but if you had to run other applications or support home
users (or travelers at hotels) would Citrix be beneficial? Some how I am
getting the feeling I am being over sold.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
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than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
office for every remote user to connect to?

We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
out of the office so it would require me setting up an
additional 10 workstations, I believe....

Dwight Jones
IRP, Inc.



--- "Winter, Patrick" <pjw@...> wrote:

> "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> access from at home."
>
> Todd,
>
> You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> good low cost, no
> overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
>
> Patrick Winter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Todd Hofert
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> VPN but was not
> happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> with Terminal
> Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> understand the
> screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> to program V8 and
> could really use a second monitor for that.
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of mjhoney71
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> & Citrix Vs. TS
>
> We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> users but is
> growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> VMware Server (so
> they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> and really like
> this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> to install and
> configure software on. Some issues we have though
> are with printing
> to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> that, CAD is a
> trial in futility on a rdp type session.
>
> I am now looking at switching everything over to
> straight VPN
> access. From a tech support document provided by
> Epicor I have found
> that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> load Vantage and
> Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> to the
> Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> I have not had a
> chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> will be fast
> enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> solution over
> Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> what the downside
> would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> performance over a
> T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
>
> Marc
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> nothing being said
> that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> problem with
> printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> PC, however I
> can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> read a lot
> of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> very well for us
> and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> for packs of 10,
> which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> Citrix versus
> Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> access (which has
> not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> Access, Outlook, CRM,
> access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> connections from
> China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> consultants who
> have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> and they are
> proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> version with
> 5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> order to allow
> growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> printer support,
> allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> is requiring all
> the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> wondering "why
> bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> worh the extra
> grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> Citrix anymore? Are
> there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> 8.0? I know from
>
=== message truncated ===




____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Rates near historic lows -
$200,000 mortgage for $660/ month -
http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com
This was the thing that swayed me too from looking at GoToMyPC. All of our sales people have laptops and our President had a fit when I proposed he leave his PC on when not in the office. If we end up with 15-20 remote users that's a lot of PC duplication.. For one ot two though I could see setting up a "Go To My SHARED PC" situation but then there would be access rights issues to various shares on our storage servers. I would be all over it for our two PC remote manufacturing operation though if I did not also need all this other access.
-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of D Jones
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:52 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS





I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
office for every remote user to connect to?

We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
out of the office so it would require me setting up an
additional 10 workstations, I believe....

Dwight Jones
IRP, Inc.

--- "Winter, Patrick" < pjw@specialtyscrew. <mailto:pjw%40specialtyscrew.com> com> wrote:

> "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> access from at home."
>
> Todd,
>
> You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> good low cost, no
> overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
>
> Patrick Winter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On Behalf
> Of Todd Hofert
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> VPN but was not
> happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> with Terminal
> Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> understand the
> screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> to program V8 and
> could really use a second monitor for that.
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of mjhoney71
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> & Citrix Vs. TS
>
> We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> users but is
> growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> VMware Server (so
> they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> and really like
> this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> to install and
> configure software on. Some issues we have though
> are with printing
> to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> that, CAD is a
> trial in futility on a rdp type session.
>
> I am now looking at switching everything over to
> straight VPN
> access. From a tech support document provided by
> Epicor I have found
> that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> load Vantage and
> Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> to the
> Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> I have not had a
> chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> will be fast
> enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> solution over
> Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> what the downside
> would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> performance over a
> T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
>
> Marc
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> nothing being said
> that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> problem with
> printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> PC, however I
> can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> read a lot
> of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> very well for us
> and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> for packs of 10,
> which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> Citrix versus
> Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> access (which has
> not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> Access, Outlook, CRM,
> access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> connections from
> China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> consultants who
> have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> and they are
> proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> version with
> 5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> order to allow
> growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> printer support,
> allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> is requiring all
> the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> wondering "why
> bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> worh the extra
> grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> Citrix anymore? Are
> there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> 8.0? I know from
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Rates near historic lows -
$200,000 mortgage for $660/ month -
http://yahoo. <http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com> ratemarketplace.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not sure where the break even point is in the number of users. I
only mentioned this because Todd Originally noted "Most immediately need
is for our sales people and our exec staff to access from at home." Why
lug home a laptop when all you really need is a Web Browser. Why pay for
another server, software and have another pieced of equipment to
maintain when you can purchase it as a service. Call it outsourcing if
you will.

Patrick Winter


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of D Jones
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:52 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS





I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
office for every remote user to connect to?

We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
out of the office so it would require me setting up an
additional 10 workstations, I believe....

Dwight Jones
IRP, Inc.

--- "Winter, Patrick" <pjw@...
<mailto:pjw%40specialtyscrew.com> > wrote:

> "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> access from at home."
>
> Todd,
>
> You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> good low cost, no
> overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
>
> Patrick Winter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf
> Of Todd Hofert
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> VPN but was not
> happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> with Terminal
> Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> understand the
> screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> to program V8 and
> could really use a second monitor for that.
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of mjhoney71
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> & Citrix Vs. TS
>
> We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> users but is
> growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> VMware Server (so
> they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> and really like
> this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> to install and
> configure software on. Some issues we have though
> are with printing
> to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> that, CAD is a
> trial in futility on a rdp type session.
>
> I am now looking at switching everything over to
> straight VPN
> access. From a tech support document provided by
> Epicor I have found
> that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> load Vantage and
> Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> to the
> Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> I have not had a
> chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> will be fast
> enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> solution over
> Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> what the downside
> would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> performance over a
> T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
>
> Marc
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> nothing being said
> that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> problem with
> printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> PC, however I
> can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> read a lot
> of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> very well for us
> and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> for packs of 10,
> which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> Citrix versus
> Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> access (which has
> not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> Access, Outlook, CRM,
> access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> connections from
> China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> consultants who
> have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> and they are
> proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> version with
> 5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> order to allow
> growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> printer support,
> allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> is requiring all
> the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> wondering "why
> bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> worh the extra
> grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> Citrix anymore? Are
> there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> 8.0? I know from
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
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This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I tried GoToMyPC before and found it to be a painfully slow spastic experience. PCAnywhere performed better (but not wonderfully better). VNC is always a workable, but last resort stop gap.

And yes it is a one to one setup. The only benefit is that GoTo works over HTTP port 80.

If your people are using XP Pro at the office, then they can use Remote Desktop to connect to their machines at work. You will just need to configure your firewall properly to route the inbound traffic correctly to the individual workstations.

If your are looking for a cheap TS solution, a company called "ThinSoft" has a product that will allow a single XP Pro computer to work like a TS. I think it can handle up to 21 simultaneous users @ about $100/user. www.thinsoftinc.com

RDP hosts can be configured to allow remote control through a browser as well, you have to install IIS and some other stuff, but it does work. You lose remote printing and drive mapping I believe.

Good Luck,

Charles



----- Original Message -----
From: D Jones
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS




I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
office for every remote user to connect to?

We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
out of the office so it would require me setting up an
additional 10 workstations, I believe....

Dwight Jones
IRP, Inc.

--- "Winter, Patrick" <pjw@...> wrote:

> "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> access from at home."
>
> Todd,
>
> You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> good low cost, no
> overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
>
> Patrick Winter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Todd Hofert
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> VPN but was not
> happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> with Terminal
> Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> understand the
> screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> to program V8 and
> could really use a second monitor for that.
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of mjhoney71
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> & Citrix Vs. TS
>
> We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> users but is
> growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> VMware Server (so
> they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> and really like
> this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> to install and
> configure software on. Some issues we have though
> are with printing
> to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> that, CAD is a
> trial in futility on a rdp type session.
>
> I am now looking at switching everything over to
> straight VPN
> access. From a tech support document provided by
> Epicor I have found
> that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> load Vantage and
> Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> to the
> Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> I have not had a
> chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> will be fast
> enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> solution over
> Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> what the downside
> would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> performance over a
> T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
>
> Marc
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> nothing being said
> that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> problem with
> printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> PC, however I
> can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> read a lot
> of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> very well for us
> and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> for packs of 10,
> which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> Citrix versus
> Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> access (which has
> not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> Access, Outlook, CRM,
> access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> connections from
> China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> consultants who
> have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> and they are
> proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> version with
> 5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> order to allow
> growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> printer support,
> allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> is requiring all
> the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> wondering "why
> bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> worh the extra
> grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> Citrix anymore? Are
> there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> 8.0? I know from
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Rates near historic lows -
$200,000 mortgage for $660/ month -
http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Most of this conversation is over my head but here is what we do. Our
salesmen have Vantage 6.1 installed on their laptops for when they are in
the office. We have Terminal Services set up on a separate server per the
instructions from tech support. We use a VPN connection and remote desktop
to connect to the terminal server. It works well and easy to set up under
XP. You don't need the client installed on the remote computer to do this
since it runs from the server. I don't use a laptop and my home computer
doesn't have Vantage.



So we use TS and RDP when they are not in the office and run the Vantage
client when they are in the office. Performance is good over broadband.
The only real hassle was getting through the firewall.





Sincerely,



Mitchell Kirby

Riten Industries, Inc.

<http://www.riten.com/> www.riten.com



740-333-8719 Direct

800-338-0027 Sales

800-338-0717 FAX

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Charles Paluska - HPN
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:22 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS



I tried GoToMyPC before and found it to be a painfully slow spastic
experience. PCAnywhere performed better (but not wonderfully better). VNC is
always a workable, but last resort stop gap.

And yes it is a one to one setup. The only benefit is that GoTo works over
HTTP port 80.

If your people are using XP Pro at the office, then they can use Remote
Desktop to connect to their machines at work. You will just need to
configure your firewall properly to route the inbound traffic correctly to
the individual workstations.

If your are looking for a cheap TS solution, a company called "ThinSoft" has
a product that will allow a single XP Pro computer to work like a TS. I
think it can handle up to 21 simultaneous users @ about $100/user.
www.thinsoftinc.com

RDP hosts can be configured to allow remote control through a browser as
well, you have to install IIS and some other stuff, but it does work. You
lose remote printing and drive mapping I believe.

Good Luck,

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: D Jones
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix Vs. TS

I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
office for every remote user to connect to?

We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
out of the office so it would require me setting up an
additional 10 workstations, I believe....

Dwight Jones
IRP, Inc.

--- "Winter, Patrick" <pjw@specialtyscrew. <mailto:pjw%40specialtyscrew.com>
com> wrote:

> "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> access from at home."
>
> Todd,
>
> You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> good low cost, no
> overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
>
> Patrick Winter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Hofert
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
>
>
>
> I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> VPN but was not
> happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> with Terminal
> Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> understand the
> screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> to program V8 and
> could really use a second monitor for that.
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of mjhoney71
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> & Citrix Vs. TS
>
> We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> users but is
> growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> VMware Server (so
> they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> and really like
> this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> to install and
> configure software on. Some issues we have though
> are with printing
> to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> that, CAD is a
> trial in futility on a rdp type session.
>
> I am now looking at switching everything over to
> straight VPN
> access. From a tech support document provided by
> Epicor I have found
> that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> load Vantage and
> Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> to the
> Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> I have not had a
> chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> will be fast
> enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> solution over
> Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> what the downside
> would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> performance over a
> T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
>
> Marc
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Todd Hofert" <todd@...> wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> nothing being said
> that
> > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> problem with
> printing,
> > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> control user
> > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> PC, however I
> can do
> > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> read a lot
> of 'flack'
> > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> very well for us
> and I
> > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> that environment. The
> > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> for packs of 10,
> which
> > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Todd Caughey
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > To: Vantage@...
> > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> Citrix versus
> Windows
> > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> >
> > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> access (which has
> not
> > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> Vantage to be 15-20
> > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> more later) and
> > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> Access, Outlook, CRM,
> access
> > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> from home using
> > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> connections would be from a
> > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> connections from
> China.
> > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> our exec staff to
> > access from at home.
> >
> > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> consultants who
> have
> > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> and they are
> proposing
> > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> version with
> 5 "named"
> > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> order to allow
> growth the
> > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> connections and TS 15
> > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> printer support,
> allowing
> > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> shadowed control of
> > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> is requiring all
> the
> > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> wondering "why
> bother
> > with Citrix?"
> >
> > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> worh the extra
> grand
> > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> Citrix anymore? Are
> there
> > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> 8.0? I know from
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

Rates near historic lows -
$200,000 mortgage for $660/ month -
http://yahoo. <http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com> ratemarketplace.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The ONLY thing that Citrix brings to the table over Win2003 TS is
TRUE load balancing. With that said, you can do load balancing on
multiple Win2003 TS using DNS entries, but it doesnt look at the CPU
load, memory usage, etc, the way Citrix does. Also you can
do "Remote Control" on Win2003 for supporting users.

GoToMyPC is great for support, but I would not want to run my remote
users that way. You will spend as much as a server getting that up
and running for each remote user and it is more hardware to
support.

Throwing my 2 cents in, I would recommend saving the $$ on Citrix and
go with Win2003 TS over Citrix any day. Same functionality, less
cost.

Jeff


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Caughey" <caugheyt@...> wrote:
>
> This was the thing that swayed me too from looking at GoToMyPC.
All of our sales people have laptops and our President had a fit when
I proposed he leave his PC on when not in the office. If we end up
with 15-20 remote users that's a lot of PC duplication.. For one ot
two though I could see setting up a "Go To My SHARED PC" situation
but then there would be access rights issues to various shares on our
storage servers. I would be all over it for our two PC remote
manufacturing operation though if I did not also need all this other
access.
> -Todd C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of D Jones
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:52 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions & Citrix
Vs. TS
>
>
>
>
>
> I've thought of going to GOTOMYPC route, too, but I
> believe you would have to have a PC set-up at the
> office for every remote user to connect to?
>
> We have ten traveling sales people that would like to
> connect remotely, but use their laptops both in and
> out of the office so it would require me setting up an
> additional 10 workstations, I believe....
>
> Dwight Jones
> IRP, Inc.
>
> --- "Winter, Patrick" < pjw@specialtyscrew. <mailto:pjw%
40specialtyscrew.com> com> wrote:
>
> > "Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> > our exec staff to
> > access from at home."
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > You also have to look close at GOTOMYPC for a very
> > good low cost, no
> > overhead, easy on the IT staff - solution.
> >
> > Patrick Winter
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> .com] On Behalf
> > Of Todd Hofert
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:09 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access
> > Questions & Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> >
> >
> > I briefly dabbled with trying to run Vantage over a
> > VPN but was not
> > happy with it compared to what we were accustomed to
> > with Terminal
> > Services. We do not have CAD to deal with but I can
> > understand the
> > screen space being an issue as I have been using TS
> > to program V8 and
> > could really use a second monitor for that.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > Behalf
> > Of mjhoney71
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:47 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: More Remote Access Questions
> > & Citrix Vs. TS
> >
> > We currently use RDP for a remote site that has five
> > users but is
> > growing. I setup 5 Windows XP workstations on a
> > VMware Server (so
> > they are basically just Windows XP boxes on our Lan)
> > and really like
> > this over TS which I tried briefly but found a pain
> > to install and
> > configure software on. Some issues we have though
> > are with printing
> > to a network printer from a RDP session. On top of
> > that, CAD is a
> > trial in futility on a rdp type session.
> >
> > I am now looking at switching everything over to
> > straight VPN
> > access. From a tech support document provided by
> > Epicor I have found
> > that it is possible for a client (version 6.1) to
> > load Vantage and
> > Progress locally on a client and then just connect
> > to the
> > Vantage /database server for pure data interaction.
> > I have not had a
> > chance to try this over VPN yet but am hoping this
> > will be fast
> > enough to be useable. Have you considered VPN as a
> > solution over
> > Citrix or TS and if so, I would be curious to know
> > what the downside
> > would be assuming it is possible to get reasonable
> > performance over a
> > T1 (1.5mbps) or similar speed connection.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Todd Hofert" <todd@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Todd,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If I understand what you are saying, there is
> > nothing being said
> > that
> > > cannot be done over Terminal Services. I have no
> > problem with
> > printing,
> > > I map shares via log in script and I can remotely
> > control user
> > > sessions(I cannot access the desktop of the remote
> > PC, however I
> > can do
> > > this via remote desktop or via a webex session). I
> > read a lot
> > of 'flack'
> > > toward TS on this list, but personally, it works
> > very well for us
> > and I
> > > rarely have to pay any attention to supporting
> > that environment. The
> > > only cost is the TS CALs. I pay about $75.00 each
> > for packs of 10,
> > which
> > > it sounds like they want you to buy anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of Todd Caughey
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:33 PM
> > > To: Vantage@
> > > Subject: [Vantage] More Remote Access Questions &
> > Citrix Vs. TS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Having just reviewed the threads last June about
> > Citrix versus
> > Windows
> > > Terminal Services I have a few more questions...
> > >
> > > Background: We've expanded our "need" for remote
> > access (which has
> > not
> > > been set up yet) beyond one small office using
> > Vantage to be 15-20
> > > people using maybe 5 connections at one time (with
> > more later) and
> > > running a variety of applications (Vantage,
> > Access, Outlook, CRM,
> > access
> > > network shares, etc...). Most of these would be
> > from home using
> > > broadband (cable or DSL) but perhaps two
> > connections would be from a
> > > small remote operation. Later we might have 3-4
> > connections from
> > China.
> > > Most immediately need is for our sales people and
> > our exec staff to
> > > access from at home.
> > >
> > > I have put this out for a proposal from our local
> > consultants who
> > have
> > > done a lot of work for us over the past few years
> > and they are
> > proposing
> > > a Citrix setup. At first it was a small business
> > version with
> > 5 "named"
> > > users and had Windows TS CALs built in. But in
> > order to allow
> > growth the
> > > proposal has switched to 5 Citrix "shareable"
> > connections and TS 15
> > > CALs. Their pitch for Citrix has been enhanced
> > printer support,
> > allowing
> > > mapping network shares on remote PC and allowing
> > shadowed control of
> > > remote sessions (for support). But since this also
> > is requiring all
> > the
> > > components of Windows 2003 Server TS it leaves me
> > wondering "why
> > bother
> > > with Citrix?"
> > >
> > > What does Citrix add to the equation that makes it
> > worh the extra
> > grand
> > > for 5 users? Since 2003 Server does anyone use
> > Citrix anymore? Are
> > there
> > > any advantages in one over the other for Vantage
> > 8.0? I know from
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
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>