[OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq

Yahoo Archive
1
Amen. I don't like HP. Dell or Compaq (or IBM for that matter) thet all have
their own funny BIOS setups, their own propriatry patches and extra programs
installed. Much better to have a clean system with a clean windows server
installation.
Just try installing Windows 2000 on a Compaq more than 1 year old and see
how many problems you have!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim MacMillan" <jimmac@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 2:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


> Why not add in the idea of building your own server? I dont think I would
> ever buy a computer that was built by one of those companies. I prefer
> buying the parts and building it on my own, you get more for your dollar
> that way too.
>
>
> Jim MacMillan
> System Administrator
> www.sdi.cc
> 800-523-6180 x 207
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:55 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq
>
>
> Can we add HP to the discussion also? In the next few months, we will be
> getting a new server dedicated to running just Vantage so this is a very
> timely topic for me.
>
>
>
> Marty Kuphall
> Ultra Tool & Mfg., Inc.
> Controller
>
> Ph. 262-703-0455
> Fx. 262-703-0468
>
> marty.kuphall@...
> Troy Funte wrote:
>
> > Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?
> >
> > Troy Funte
> > Liberty Electronics
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
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>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
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> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
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>
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>
>
2
Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
Can we add HP to the discussion also? In the next few months, we will be getting a new server dedicated to running just Vantage so this is a very timely topic for me.



Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg., Inc.
Controller

Ph. 262-703-0455
Fx. 262-703-0468

marty.kuphall@...
Troy Funte wrote:

> Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?
>
> Troy Funte
> Liberty Electronics
4
Why not add in the idea of building your own server? I dont think I would
ever buy a computer that was built by one of those companies. I prefer
buying the parts and building it on my own, you get more for your dollar
that way too.


Jim MacMillan
System Administrator
www.sdi.cc
800-523-6180 x 207

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:55 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Can we add HP to the discussion also? In the next few months, we will be
getting a new server dedicated to running just Vantage so this is a very
timely topic for me.



Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg., Inc.
Controller

Ph. 262-703-0455
Fx. 262-703-0468

marty.kuphall@...
Troy Funte wrote:

> Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?
>
> Troy Funte
> Liberty Electronics



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
5
It may not be worth much but the Progress person at Perspectives
made it clear that he preferred Compaq. Too bad we have all Dell's !?!
I think the main issue is what's inside...not the label.


-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
At 10:47 AM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

I'd go Dell. We bought a couple Compaqs in July '99 when we bought
Vantage. Upgrades for them, like a 2nd CPU are ridiculously overpriced,
and they've "fixed" things so you can't just buy a cheap P-III off the
shelf to stick in the socket. Other things in it are not as
industry-standard as I'd like. Plus the disk performance stinks, even
compared to IDE drives of the same vintage.

From the few Dells I've seen, they don't go out of their way to lock you
into their peripherals and upgrades.

-Wayne Cox
7
We have an HP Netserver that has basically never failed in three years.
Vantage is running on a custom server that I built and has been perfect for
almost two years. I'll stick with custom builds just for the sake I can do
whatever I want with them and know the machine inside out.


--
Gary Wassing
Systems Administrator
SteelCraft Industries
519-271-4750 x227

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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8
If you build it yourself or have a local company do it, the only person you
can fall back on when something breaks is whoever built it. With Dell, they
can have someone there within four hours with whatever replacement part we
need. When the extra hard drive we bought from an outside supplier for our
server blew, it took two weeks for us to get a replacement from the
manufacturer.

We have six Dell servers and one old Compaq. Never had a problem with any of
the OEM parts in any of them.

Brian

> -----Original Message-----
> Why not add in the idea of building your own server? I dont
> think I would
> ever buy a computer that was built by one of those companies.
> I prefer
> buying the parts and building it on my own, you get more for
> your dollar
> that way too..
9
We went with several IBM Servers at our location, but that is neither here
nor there. I have been experiencing difficulty with Dell Support on some of
our PC's and Notebooks. Getting support is like pulling teeth. At the very
least with Compaq and IBM, you can get authorized Service Organizations as
alternatives. Dell supports its own products. Granted the products are
good, but as a result of recent experiences, I would never by Dell Server.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: October 30, 2001 11:01 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq

At 10:47 AM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

I'd go Dell. We bought a couple Compaqs in July '99 when we bought
Vantage. Upgrades for them, like a 2nd CPU are ridiculously overpriced,
and they've "fixed" things so you can't just buy a cheap P-III off the
shelf to stick in the socket. Other things in it are not as
industry-standard as I'd like. Plus the disk performance stinks, even
compared to IDE drives of the same vintage.

From the few Dells I've seen, they don't go out of their way to lock you
into their peripherals and upgrades.

-Wayne Cox



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
10
I agree with Jim, We've been running a home grown server since 9/11/01.
With good performance, I compared our config with HP's. Cost for hp's was
about 22k. Our home built came in under $9500.00 all said and done. You
just need a geeky computer type JIC. ;'}

Shirley H. Graver
(End User)
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim MacMillan [mailto:jimmac@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:32 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq

Why not add in the idea of building your own server? I dont think I would
ever buy a computer that was built by one of those companies. I prefer
buying the parts and building it on my own, you get more for your dollar
that way too.


Jim MacMillan
System Administrator
www.sdi.cc
800-523-6180 x 207

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:55 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Can we add HP to the discussion also? In the next few months, we will be
getting a new server dedicated to running just Vantage so this is a very
timely topic for me.



Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg., Inc.
Controller

Ph. 262-703-0455
Fx. 262-703-0468

marty.kuphall@...
Troy Funte wrote:

> Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?
>
> Troy Funte
> Liberty Electronics



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
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11
I have both servers running. I've had no problems with either. The one
time I used Dell's on-site tech support they arrived the next morning with
parts in hand so I think that was a definite positive. I definitely prefer
Dell's support web site to Compaq's. Trying to navigate their cryptic site
for downloads is an extremely frustrating process (at least for me). Dell's
site is just the opposite. You type in your service code and all the
downloads are sorted for that machine by driver type.

I looked into custom built servers but have shyed away from them. You
definitely get more machine for the buck when you buy the components
individually but with the name brands they do spend a good bit of time
testing the configurations to make sure they are optimal for each other.
Should something go wrong I don't want to deal with each individual supplier
to get a RAID card here or a processor there. I pay the extra for one stop
replacements on servers. My Florida plant has a custom built server
(against my recommendations, I was new at the time it was purchased) and
coincidence or not the RAID controller has failed twice and it has been a
pain to keep getting different models and updating drivers from Maryland.

In summary my next server will be a Dell.

My $.02

Jim Carnes
IS Administrator
Kenlee Precision Corp
jcarnes@...
1700 Morrell Park Ave
Baltimore, MD 21230




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
12
We have been running two compaq servers, and hire an outside consultant to
come in to set them up. In our consultant's opinion, compaq's are the way
to go as far as PC servers go, and our's have been rock solid.

I believe compaq to be the best I've seen when it comes to supporting
outdated equipment. Their website is very comprehensive, and provides every
driver for every chip on their machine that needs a driver. I had to track
down a CMOS battery for a 5 year old deskpro, e-mailed tech support, and had
the part number I needed within 24 hours.

So in a nutshell, compaqs have worked for us on the server end, though we
have switched from using compaq workstations to Gateway.

Thaddeus


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:01 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


At 10:47 AM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

I'd go Dell. We bought a couple Compaqs in July '99 when we bought
Vantage. Upgrades for them, like a 2nd CPU are ridiculously overpriced,
and they've "fixed" things so you can't just buy a cheap P-III off the
shelf to stick in the socket. Other things in it are not as
industry-standard as I'd like. Plus the disk performance stinks, even
compared to IDE drives of the same vintage.

From the few Dells I've seen, they don't go out of their way to lock you
into their peripherals and upgrades.

-Wayne Cox



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
13
* Dell is cheaper
* Dell uses more off the shelf equipment so you are not locked into Compaq
"branded" items
* Dell has great service ( consistently rated better then Compaq )
* Compaq who ? - didn't they get bought up by someone else ? Hmmm, what
happens to parts and supplies 2-3 years from now ...
* With Dell you can goto their website and configure a server exactly the
way YOU want it as opposed to buying a pre-configured box sold through a
reseller
* Dell is direct, Compaq uses reseller's most of the time, Does adding one
more layer of cost make Compaq's cheaper ? Nope.

One note - for home use look at Dell dimension line. For office use stick
with the Optiplex line - Dell works hard to make sure the Optiplex line is
the Maytag of the industry using extremely well tested drivers and hardware.

Did I mention that Dell is cheaper ?

Did I mention that Compaq doesn't actually exist any more ? What will HP do
with the two product lines and which models will be dropped ?

Hmmmm ... Ok, I admit it, I'm a long time Dell buyer.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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14
I'll put my 2 cents in here also.

We have a 5 year old HP Netserver, 4 year old Netserver, 3 year old IBM
Netfinity 5500 for Vantage, 3 year old Compaq that sits in the CNC
department covered with dirt and dust, and a 1 year old Netfinity 3500 as a
test server. The Netfinity 5500 has been nothing but ROCK SOLID for Vantage
and all hardware upgrades I've done have gone off without a hitch. Only
problem I've had with any of them was a SCSI drive failure in the 3500, but
that was a Seagate and during a time when I had 8 other Seagate drive
failures in various other machines. IBM support was excellent with the
drive replacement and even with helping to put an HP tape drive in it. I
think the Dells are less proprietary than the big 3, but I have also had
problems with Dell both buying PCs and getting support. I also shy away
from custom builds because they have always cost me more money in the long
run with support, at least for desktop PCs, and I would rather have a
technical service department to report problems to rather than dealing with
individual suppliers.

I have a new Vantage server in the budget for 2002 and if by some miracle it
gets passed, I will be considering another IBM as my first choice, HP as
second choice.

Rick
15
Have a Dell Poweredge 2450. Works great - never had a problem in the year
it's been up. Dell phone support is pretty helpful. Yep, it's more
expensive. But I don't have the time to build one or to learn the details.
When you add up the cost of my time, and factor in the insanity factor of an
already pressed-to-the-limit schedule, the extra cost of getting one already
made was worth it.

Gary Polvinale
Denton ATD

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
16
My experience with Dell has been excellent. I have replaced 15
workstations, but no servers, with Dell systems this year, and when I had
one with a bad video card they were here the next working day. (Called me,
though and asked if I needed it on Saturday-didn't want to come meet the
guy, so waited til Monday.) I was especially impressed with how the box was
put together when I opened it up-things clearly marked and so on. I'm it
for our MIS department, so if I had to build them and fix them, I wouldn't
have time for ANYTHING else, so our decision is to go with Dell-even the guy
who built my servers suggested that I go with them, since their on-site
service record is so solid-and he sells HPs! The systems are also solid,
and they even ask you for configuration info when you order them. I guess
it is all in your own experience.

Lydia
lcoffman@...
Canyon Engineering Products, Inc.
17
Never had a Compaq server. Supported the old dual floppy luggable Compaq
portable with the 5" screen. Didn't like it. Just opinion but I've heard
too many reports of bad service and poor quality control. Just recently
bought 13 new Dell workstations. Some were general purpose and some were
just for data collection. The quality is top notch. I like the idea of
install it and forget it. I built most of the computers they replaced. I
never had many problems with them but these days my time is better spent
blocking viruses and keeping things updated than having to build computers.


The last 2 servers purchased have been from a company called Xi Computer.
Their main focus is high performance cad workstations for low bucks. The
dual processor, raid, redundant power, etc servers I bought from them were
only about 65% of the cost of comparable servers from Dell, IBM or HP.
(notice anyone missing from that list?) The only problem was with one of
the hot-swap drive drawers. The high temp alarm kept going off. It's
really loud and annoying. They replaced it the next day.

That's about $.03 worth.

Bob Bruton
Entek Corp.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18
Ahh, the age-old computer debate, have to get my $.02 in on this
too. We have 2 Compaq Proliant 1600 servers, they've been running
for over 2 years without problems (the second processor was
expensive). I order Compaq's Deskpro EN model for our workstations
with Win2k only. No problems with those, have about 20 or so new
ones. I've had bad experiences with Gateway and HP desktops. I
haven't bought any Dells but their new pricing is the best I've ever
seen. I experimented with building clone workstations, saved a lot
of $$ in the short run but I had a lot of problems with them and
spent a lot of time digging up POs, receipts and shipping parts back
and forth. Often with motherboard mfgs, you have to ship the board
for repair. If you don't have spare parts around, plan for a lot of
downtime.

About the Compaq buyout: My supplier met with both Compaq and HP
representatives. Why do you think HP bought Dell? According to the
reps, they want Compaq's server and desktop markets, and they are
going to keep the Compaq architecture. I was going to switch to Dell
until I heard this. I support an off-job office or two with Dell
Optiplexes and don't really like them. Their neat design made it
easy to replace 2 hard drives and a motherboard in the same brand new
computer, though it could have just been a lemon.

Compaq's frustrating website: At first I found it intolerable but
have learned it now and its easy enough.

Tech support: Never called them, I diagnose the problem, email my
supplier, Compaq ships the part directly to me with the return
shipping box ready to go.

--- In vantage@y..., "Troy Funte" <tfunte@e...> wrote:
> Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?
>
> Troy Funte
> Liberty Electronics
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
19
OK, I go away from desk for two hours and have 50+ messages. So, to join
the crowd...
Compaq: -Don't like proprietary hardware. Could not add plain old (cheap)
memory to our email server
-Initial install of OS was awful with Compaq server manager
software
-Adding disk was way too expensive compared to getting a new
server

Dell: Only have them for CAD workstations but they seem OK, upgraded video
cards no problem

IBM: Our Netfinity 5500 server for Vantage is very solid, very easy to
maintain. Proprietary but this is our most critical server so didn't want
to go "cheap".

HP: Our new email server (just received) is HP Netserver 800, don't like the
case & screws and SCSI drive was proprietary. Waiting to see about adding
memory. Only reason it was selected was very low price (sub-$1K). If it
does not work out it becomes a file server. If not for price difference I
would have purchased a rack mount IBM Netfinity.

Build-Your--Own: Not for server I wouldn't. Most of our desktops are.
Especially in plant whre for $350 a box they are almost disposable.

As far as BYO for family - been there-done that (5 times) and yes tech
support is really tricky. Not easy to say no to a request to come reload
virus mangled OS (right now!). They seem to expect you are responsible for
anything that goes wrong.

OK, my $.02 is in the pot.

-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
20
Well, since I'm not the one who threw Big Blue into the mix, I'll defer
responsibility for muddying the water but our experience, especially
recently, would suggest that for servers IBM should definately be in the mix
for consideration. We have recently purchased and installed 9 xSeries rack
mount servers for three different clients and can attest that, comperably
configured, they were at or below the price of Dell systems. Additionally,
their setup routine worked flawlessly so that a server could go from the box
to completely online in a little under an hour. Finally, their support
(needed more HD and RAM) was flawless.

I guess the message here is don't overlook IBM just because they used to
have a reputation as expensive. They are making a serious push into the low
to mid range server market and if anyone has the corporate wherewithall to
unseat Dell its IBM.

Michael Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:35 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


OK, I go away from desk for two hours and have 50+ messages. So, to join
the crowd...
Compaq: -Don't like proprietary hardware. Could not add plain old (cheap)
memory to our email server
-Initial install of OS was awful with Compaq server manager
software
-Adding disk was way too expensive compared to getting a new
server

Dell: Only have them for CAD workstations but they seem OK, upgraded video
cards no problem

IBM: Our Netfinity 5500 server for Vantage is very solid, very easy to
maintain. Proprietary but this is our most critical server so didn't want
to go "cheap".

HP: Our new email server (just received) is HP Netserver 800, don't like the
case & screws and SCSI drive was proprietary. Waiting to see about adding
memory. Only reason it was selected was very low price (sub-$1K). If it
does not work out it becomes a file server. If not for price difference I
would have purchased a rack mount IBM Netfinity.

Build-Your--Own: Not for server I wouldn't. Most of our desktops are.
Especially in plant whre for $350 a box they are almost disposable.

As far as BYO for family - been there-done that (5 times) and yes tech
support is really tricky. Not easy to say no to a request to come reload
virus mangled OS (right now!). They seem to expect you are responsible for
anything that goes wrong.

OK, my $.02 is in the pot.

-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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