[OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP

Yahoo Archive
1
Wayne,

I would not buy a Gateway PC. If it was free I'm not sure I would want it.

I've had 8 or 9 users in our company purchase Gateway PC's over the last 5
years. All but one has had trouble with their units of one kind or another
and getting tech support / service was such a pain that everyone of them
swore they would never buy a Gateway again.

My favorite was the tech support guy at Gateway that told our Production
control manager "Look little lady, if you knew what you were doing you would
not be having these problems." After reaming him out she asked for his
supervisor ( a woman ) and after explaining the 6 weeks of hassles and round
robins with tech support trying to get a brand new out of the box PC to work
correctly the supervisor agreed to drop ship her totally new box.

On the other hand I recommended a Dell PC to my bother about 4 years ago.
One month after purchasing the box the motherboard crashed. I gave him the
number for tech support ... he called about 7 pm and had a tech online in
about 3 minutes who walked him through opening the case and checking the
cables. After about 10 minutes the tech agreed that the box needed work.
The next day a service tech called my brother at work and wanted to know
what time he could top by the house and fix the PC. He came by that night
and replaced the motherboard, tested the unit, and was out the door in about
20 minutes.

I don't know about you but when my relatives buy PC's I WANT them to buy
good equipment. I do NOT have the time to be fixing them myself every time
something goes wrong.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP


At 12:02 PM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>so Gateway was still cranking out quality stuff at that time.

That's two strikes against Gateway now. What's the trouble with their
stuff?

My techo-phobe father is in the market for his first home PC, and Gateway
was one I was considering. I'd like to buy a box-o-parts and build him
something, but I don't wanna be stuck playing tech support.

-Wayne





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2
Now that you've brought it up, I'm going to have to side with Dell, now that
HP is in the equation. I love our HP printers and plotters, but after
working on a few HP PC's I swore I'd never buy a computer from them ever
again in my life. Maybe they've changed their ways, but I'd have to go for
someone who's PC's have always been reliable, and who's support has always
superseeded HP and Compaqs in ratings - Dell.

Maybe if HP changed their name to hPaq I'd reconsider.

Thaddeus



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:20 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


* Dell is cheaper
* Dell uses more off the shelf equipment so you are not locked into Compaq
"branded" items
* Dell has great service ( consistently rated better then Compaq )
* Compaq who ? - didn't they get bought up by someone else ? Hmmm, what
happens to parts and supplies 2-3 years from now ...
* With Dell you can goto their website and configure a server exactly the
way YOU want it as opposed to buying a pre-configured box sold through a
reseller
* Dell is direct, Compaq uses reseller's most of the time, Does adding one
more layer of cost make Compaq's cheaper ? Nope.

One note - for home use look at Dell dimension line. For office use stick
with the Optiplex line - Dell works hard to make sure the Optiplex line is
the Maytag of the industry using extremely well tested drivers and hardware.

Did I mention that Dell is cheaper ?

Did I mention that Compaq doesn't actually exist any more ? What will HP do
with the two product lines and which models will be dropped ?

Hmmmm ... Ok, I admit it, I'm a long time Dell buyer.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] servers -- Dell vs. Compaq


Any debate on the virtues or woes of Compaq Vs. Dell?

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics



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3
Maybe this subject line should read "PCs - Dell vs. Everyone Else"

I have to agree with Thad on the HP desktops, pretty much junk from what
I've seen. The $899 packages from Wal-Mart are probably ok for home use,
but I haven't seen anything that suited me for business yet.

My major gripe with Dell (Optiplex) machines and most others is the heavy
integration of stuff like video, sound, and network onto the motherboard. I
would rather have those components on separate cards so if the sound card
goes out I don't have to replace the entire motherboard to get it working
again. Compaq was the only one offering such a machine except for maybe
Gateway, and I will never buy another Gateway again.

Really what it comes down to is they all have pretty much the same stuff
inside, it is just who places the components in the case and how they
service after the sale.

I guess that is my 4 cents now.

Rick
4
I've used Dell Dimension and Dimension L for our general corporate
workstations. Office 2000 & Vantage seem to work fine for medium usage. I
know they aren't meant for business and the Optiplexes are, but the stuff in
the Dimensions is quality, and Dell seems to be a little more flexible about
letting you decide what you want in the Dimensions than they are with the
Optiplexes. Just my take on it.

Gary Polvinale
Denton ATD

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Spriggle [mailto:rspriggle@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP


Maybe this subject line should read "PCs - Dell vs. Everyone Else"

I have to agree with Thad on the HP desktops, pretty much junk from what
I've seen. The $899 packages from Wal-Mart are probably ok for home use,
but I haven't seen anything that suited me for business yet.

My major gripe with Dell (Optiplex) machines and most others is the heavy
integration of stuff like video, sound, and network onto the motherboard. I
would rather have those components on separate cards so if the sound card
goes out I don't have to replace the entire motherboard to get it working
again. Compaq was the only one offering such a machine except for maybe
Gateway, and I will never buy another Gateway again.

Really what it comes down to is they all have pretty much the same stuff
inside, it is just who places the components in the case and how they
service after the sale.

I guess that is my 4 cents now.

Rick




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5
The video, sound and network cards can be replaced without changing the
motherboard-you add the card in one of the slots and route around the old
component.

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Spriggle [mailto:rspriggle@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP

Maybe this subject line should read "PCs - Dell vs. Everyone Else"

I have to agree with Thad on the HP desktops, pretty much junk from what
I've seen. The $899 packages from Wal-Mart are probably ok for home use,
but I haven't seen anything that suited me for business yet.

My major gripe with Dell (Optiplex) machines and most others is the heavy
integration of stuff like video, sound, and network onto the motherboard. I
would rather have those components on separate cards so if the sound card
goes out I don't have to replace the entire motherboard to get it working
again. Compaq was the only one offering such a machine except for maybe
Gateway, and I will never buy another Gateway again.

Really what it comes down to is they all have pretty much the same stuff
inside, it is just who places the components in the case and how they
service after the sale.

I guess that is my 4 cents now.

Rick




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6
When I took over the IT Management of my current POE, we had a healthy mix
of homegrown stuff and Gateways. This was about 4 years ago, so Gateway was
still cranking out quality stuff at that time. Our only Dell was also our
only server. Over the years I have added a few homebuilt workstation and a
homebuilt Terminal Server. I have 6 servers now. Server1 is still the
trusty old Dell. It has never gone down on us in the 5 years we've had it.
It has been everything from file server to e-mail server to Vantage server.
I just couldn't get it over my heart to retire it, so it still serves in my
network as the PDC. This is all it does, but I am sure it would still be
capable to handle more if duty would call. Due to the reliability of
Server1 I bought Dell for all my other servers (except for the homegrown
WTS). Yes, I do renew my warranty contracts, but I have never needed to use
them on a server. Most of my desktops are Dell Optiplexes. I had a fan
fail on one of them once, and the Wang tech (in Dell drag) was out here
within 3 hours with a new fan in his hand. Major kudos.

Enough for the sappy "Why I love Dell story"; here is a piece of advice for
the tightwads among us (or those suffering from a CFO who drinks waaay too
much coffee):

NEVER EVER buy a Dell server/laptop/workstation/peripheral directly from
their business site. Instead browse their Refurbished Systems Outlet site
@:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/default.htm
<http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/default.htm>

Same hardware, same warranty, brand new stuff, but MUCH lower price. A
couple of hints; things move fast on this site, if you're ready to buy make
sure you have a credit card in hand and your CFO is at lunch. New items in
this section get added in the late afternoon. Best time to browse is around
5:00 EST.

Good luck!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
At 12:02 PM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>so Gateway was still cranking out quality stuff at that time.

That's two strikes against Gateway now. What's the trouble with their stuff?

My techo-phobe father is in the market for his first home PC, and Gateway
was one I was considering. I'd like to buy a box-o-parts and build him
something, but I don't wanna be stuck playing tech support.

-Wayne
8
I recently bought a Dell Dimension 8100 for home. Pent 4 1.5ghz 256mb ram
40 gb hard drive etc... already had a great monitor. less than $1000. Some
really great deals going. Recommended to my daughter & she bought the same
rig with a new monitor. Totally satisfied with the workmanship and general
quality. Not quite as integrated as the Optiplex series. A little bit more
like the generic clones I'm used to. Highly recommended. Two thumbs up. 5
stars.

Bob Bruton
Entek Corp.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP


At 12:02 PM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>so Gateway was still cranking out quality stuff at that time.

That's two strikes against Gateway now. What's the trouble with their
stuff?

My techo-phobe father is in the market for his first home PC, and Gateway
was one I was considering. I'd like to buy a box-o-parts and build him
something, but I don't wanna be stuck playing tech support.

-Wayne



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Shame on all those Compaq board members who okay'd the HP takeover. I'm no
Compaq desktop fan. Have seven of those & seven Dell Optiplex & seven HP
Visualize Fx workstations. HP may be able to build a server, although I
have not been privvy to the proof of the pudding. No Dell server
experience either. My FIRST Compaq Proliant 1000 (P-60 RAID 5 on 3-2.1GB,
80MB RAM (Netware 3.12J) server got re-installed with NT Workstation (to
serve the ONE Win3 diehard, who just happens to be my immediate boss) and
sits right next to the Compaq Proliant ML 370 (866mhz RAID 5 on 5-18GB
128MB RAM). The ML 370 was a "Corporate freebie." "Here, put this on your
rack, so we can Zen you from the WAN," with Netware 5. That one sits next
to a Proliant 1600 (400mhz 256MB RAM RAID 5 on 3-18GB) doing a
"member-thing." AND THAT ONE sits by a Proliant 3000 (dual-333mhz 320MB
RAM RAID 0,1 on 5-9GB with Vantage.

If Hewlett-PAQard builds its servers the same way they build their
workstations, I'll do Dell if the situation arises.

At 11:37 AM 10/30/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>I recently bought a Dell Dimension 8100 for home. Pent 4 1.5ghz 256mb ram
>40 gb hard drive etc... already had a great monitor. less than $1000. Some
>really great deals going. Recommended to my daughter & she bought the same
>rig with a new monitor. Totally satisfied with the workmanship and general
>quality. Not quite as integrated as the Optiplex series. A little bit more
>like the generic clones I'm used to. Highly recommended. Two thumbs up. 5
>stars.
>
>Bob Bruton
>Entek Corp.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:28 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP
>
>
>At 12:02 PM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
> >so Gateway was still cranking out quality stuff at that time.
>
>That's two strikes against Gateway now. What's the trouble with their
>stuff?
>
>My techo-phobe father is in the market for his first home PC, and Gateway
>was one I was considering. I'd like to buy a box-o-parts and build him
>something, but I don't wanna be stuck playing tech support.
>
> -Wayne
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
>have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
>Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
10
In my eyes the troubles with Gateway are plain old cutting corners and using
cheap parts (like HD's) where you really shouldn't. Also their tech support
is hard to get a hold of without taking out the old credit card.

If you don't want to be stuck playing tech support for family and friends
then my best advice is lie about what you do for a living. My parents still
think I joined the Foreign Legion a decade ago. The same holds true if you
are a MD, car mechanic or lawyer.

HTH,

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:28
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] servers --NOW Dell vs. HP


At 12:02 PM 10/30/2001, you wrote:
>so Gateway was still cranking out quality stuff at that time.

That's two strikes against Gateway now. What's the trouble with their
stuff?

My techo-phobe father is in the market for his first home PC, and Gateway
was one I was considering. I'd like to buy a box-o-parts and build him
something, but I don't wanna be stuck playing tech support.

-Wayne





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11
HP insider told me that HP is having second thoughts about ingesting Compaq.
And if the deal does happen, it will be sometime next year.

Jerry Solobay
Ebco Aerospace
12
> In my eyes the troubles with Gateway are plain old cutting
> corners and using cheap parts (like HD's) where you really shouldn't.

Exactly. I saw a decline in their products when they decided to compete
with Dell and Compaq for the large corporate market. The bought ALR to have
servers and developed the E series of desktops to mimick the Optiplex. All
of a sudden the choices for configuring a machine were 3D PCI graphic
acclerator, 10/100 network interface, etc., not STB VirgeGX or Intel
EtherExpress 10/100. I could order 4 machines that are identical and all
four came with different brands of hard drives, video cards, and
motherboards. They were coming dead out of the box and the tech support
reps were following a fixed flow chart of stuff nowhere near related to the
problem. For a bad CD-ROM one support person wanted me to open the case and
change jumper settings on the motherboard. I told him no thanks, bought a
$30 Mitsumi off the shelf, and the problem was fixed. No more Gateways
here.

My father just left a support position at a fairly large health care
organization that was all Gateway and his sentiments are the same as mine -
no continuity between the machines, difficulty finding the correct drivers
or even determining what hardware is inside, and sub-standard support from
the factory.

I hate to slam somebody's product, but I call them like I see them. I have
nothing really again Dell and have a 5 year old Dimension at home with no
intentions of replacing it but would get another one in a heartbeat if I
did. I've just had problems with them in the corporate environment. I've
always gotten the high and mighty attitude of "we are the best and you need
us in your company for all of your needs".

I guess I'm up to 6 cents now.

Rick