Removing RAID5

To all; I work with progress version 9 with multiple applications.
While Epicor does not have thie requirement, two other appliction
developors absolutely will not support Progress on a raid 5. The
problem is progress does multiple writes before data is actually
committed to the database. With added writes required to write to the
two segments on each drive in a raid 5, the through put goes way down.
I has seen progress commits be delayed. I often recommend two raid
1's. The first raid 1 is for a system drive with pagefiles for memory
and the ohter for the database operations. The cost is typically just
one more hard drive, sometimes a other raid card depending on the base
raid included with most servers. What I am curious in is the
performance and durability SATA raids.






--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Hoyt" <aaron.hoyt@...> wrote:
>
> Charles,
> I can't give performance numbers, but...I know of a company that I
worked at
> specifically with Vantage. I left them with Vantage 6.0, a P3 800 (if I
> remember right), gig of ram, hardware raid 10 on 4 IDE drives.
> A while later they purchased the latest and greatest (about 1 year ago),
> super fast processor with 4 gigs of ram, gigabit network card and a
raid 5
> on SCSI. The quote from one of the Vantage Power users was that the
system
> was now painfully slow in comparison.
> Granted, as I said, I don't have numbers, but this would seem to
support the
> concept.
> I will be watching for anyone with numbers.
> Aaron Hoyt
> Vantage Plastics
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> Of Charles Paluska - HPN
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:28 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Removing RAID5
>
>
> I'm glad you were successful.
>
> Most newer controllers have utility software to add drive space and
modify
> the raid configuration - some on the fly (I'm sure a big performance
hit).
> So if you were lucky to have a controller and software to do this
you could
> have saved alot of effort. On the other hand - you "know" that your
system
> is the way you want it now.
>
> Has anyone actually benchmarked the Raid 5 performance issues in a real
> world against a similar raid 10 ? The arguement against Raid 5 and
> databases has been around so long (almost as long as me) that I'm
beginning
> to believe that this might actually be more of an urban legend.
Sure, way
> back drives were slow (5mbs) and narrow (8 bits) - along with
processors and
> slow bus speeds and small ram and cache sizes - every trick in the
book was
> needed to get performance up to an acceptable level. Now drives are
fast
> 320mbps and wide 16 bits with large caches, better algorithms, large
amounts
> of RAM, multiple processors and processor speed that will literally
burn you
> if you touch the chip. But I'm wondering if the same chapter in the
"Tweak
> Your Server Handbook" has been copied over and over again from 20
years ago
> without taking into consideration today's hardware performance.
>
> Years ago, I remember everyone telling me I needed to upgrade my Novel
> servers to faster machines. My response was "It's just file and
print - it
> won't make any difference, upgrade the network and it will go faster."
> Well, management didn't see it my way - and I ended up spending lots of
> company money on servers and more than a couple weekends to migrate the
> data - and the performance increase was ZERO ! I loved that performance
> review.
>
> I always like a story with a happy ending.
>
> Charles
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Comeau, Steven" <scomeau@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Removing RAID5
>
>
> Great to hear it was so smooth!
>
>
>
> Steven Comeau
>
> Manager, Corporate IT Systems
>
> Main Tape
>
> 1 Capital Drive, Suite 101
>
> Cranbury, NJ 08512
>
> 800-718-8273 x332
>
> _____
>
> From: Joe Rojas [mailto:jrojas@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:28 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Removing RAID5
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my
> Vantage/Progress server.
>
> To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all
the pros
> and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now
though!).
> I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my
plan worked
> despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!
>
> Here is what I did:
> 1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the
> "AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to
manual and
> rebooting the server.
> 2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
> 3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5
> partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this
because I
> had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data
could have
> been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
> 4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from
> complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor
and one
> called CorVu.
> 5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did
> this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I
_had_
> too.
> 6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
> 7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
> 8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
> 9) Reboot into Windows
> 10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure
> drive letter is the same), and format
> 11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
> 12) Recreate shares
> 13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
> 14) Reboot server
>
> Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you
couldn't use
> RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the
> Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk
space,
> you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data
back,
> and resume!
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Rojas
> IT Manager
> TNCO, Inc.
> 781-447-6661 x7506
> jrojas@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
> Manufacturing software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing
>
+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=P
>
da+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+s
> oftware&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>
>
> Membership database software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufac
>
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
>
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marke
> ting+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>
>
> Database mortgage software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufactu
>
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&
>
w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketi
> ng+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>
>
> Pda database software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+
>
software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pd
>
a+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+so
> ftware&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>
>
> Database management software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufac
>
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
>
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marke
> ting+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>
>
> Database marketing software
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufact
>
uring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software
>
&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+market
> ing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage>
" on the
> web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Hi All,

Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my Vantage/Progress server.

To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all the pros and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now though!).
I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my plan worked despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!

Here is what I did:
1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the "AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to manual and rebooting the server.
2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5 partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this because I had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data could have been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor and one called CorVu.
5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I _had_ too.
6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
9) Reboot into Windows
10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure drive letter is the same), and format
11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
12) Recreate shares
13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
14) Reboot server

Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you couldn't use RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk space, you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data back, and resume!

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Great to hear it was so smooth!



Steven Comeau

Manager, Corporate IT Systems

Main Tape

1 Capital Drive, Suite 101

Cranbury, NJ 08512

800-718-8273 x332

_____

From: Joe Rojas [mailto:jrojas@...]
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Removing RAID5



Hi All,

Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my Vantage/Progress server.

To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all the pros and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now though!).
I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my plan worked despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!

Here is what I did:
1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the "AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to manual and rebooting the server.
2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5 partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this because I had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data could have been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor and one called CorVu.
5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I _had_ too.
6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
9) Reboot into Windows
10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure drive letter is the same), and format
11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
12) Recreate shares
13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
14) Reboot server

Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you couldn't use RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk space, you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data back, and resume!

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>



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* Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm glad you were successful.

Most newer controllers have utility software to add drive space and modify
the raid configuration - some on the fly (I'm sure a big performance hit).
So if you were lucky to have a controller and software to do this you could
have saved alot of effort. On the other hand - you "know" that your system
is the way you want it now.

Has anyone actually benchmarked the Raid 5 performance issues in a real
world against a similar raid 10 ? The arguement against Raid 5 and
databases has been around so long (almost as long as me) that I'm beginning
to believe that this might actually be more of an urban legend. Sure, way
back drives were slow (5mbs) and narrow (8 bits) - along with processors and
slow bus speeds and small ram and cache sizes - every trick in the book was
needed to get performance up to an acceptable level. Now drives are fast
320mbps and wide 16 bits with large caches, better algorithms, large amounts
of RAM, multiple processors and processor speed that will literally burn you
if you touch the chip. But I'm wondering if the same chapter in the "Tweak
Your Server Handbook" has been copied over and over again from 20 years ago
without taking into consideration today's hardware performance.

Years ago, I remember everyone telling me I needed to upgrade my Novel
servers to faster machines. My response was "It's just file and print - it
won't make any difference, upgrade the network and it will go faster."
Well, management didn't see it my way - and I ended up spending lots of
company money on servers and more than a couple weekends to migrate the
data - and the performance increase was ZERO ! I loved that performance
review.

I always like a story with a happy ending.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Comeau, Steven" <scomeau@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Removing RAID5


Great to hear it was so smooth!



Steven Comeau

Manager, Corporate IT Systems

Main Tape

1 Capital Drive, Suite 101

Cranbury, NJ 08512

800-718-8273 x332

_____

From: Joe Rojas [mailto:jrojas@...]
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Removing RAID5



Hi All,

Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my
Vantage/Progress server.

To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all the pros
and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now though!).
I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my plan worked
despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!

Here is what I did:
1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the
"AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to manual and
rebooting the server.
2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5
partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this because I
had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data could have
been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from
complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor and one
called CorVu.
5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did
this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I _had_
too.
6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
9) Reboot into Windows
10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure
drive letter is the same), and format
11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
12) Recreate shares
13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
14) Reboot server

Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you couldn't use
RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the
Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk space,
you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data back,
and resume!

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>



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web.

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<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
Charles,
I can't give performance numbers, but...I know of a company that I worked at
specifically with Vantage. I left them with Vantage 6.0, a P3 800 (if I
remember right), gig of ram, hardware raid 10 on 4 IDE drives.
A while later they purchased the latest and greatest (about 1 year ago),
super fast processor with 4 gigs of ram, gigabit network card and a raid 5
on SCSI. The quote from one of the Vantage Power users was that the system
was now painfully slow in comparison.
Granted, as I said, I don't have numbers, but this would seem to support the
concept.
I will be watching for anyone with numbers.
Aaron Hoyt
Vantage Plastics

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Charles Paluska - HPN
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Removing RAID5


I'm glad you were successful.

Most newer controllers have utility software to add drive space and modify
the raid configuration - some on the fly (I'm sure a big performance hit).
So if you were lucky to have a controller and software to do this you could
have saved alot of effort. On the other hand - you "know" that your system
is the way you want it now.

Has anyone actually benchmarked the Raid 5 performance issues in a real
world against a similar raid 10 ? The arguement against Raid 5 and
databases has been around so long (almost as long as me) that I'm beginning
to believe that this might actually be more of an urban legend. Sure, way
back drives were slow (5mbs) and narrow (8 bits) - along with processors and
slow bus speeds and small ram and cache sizes - every trick in the book was
needed to get performance up to an acceptable level. Now drives are fast
320mbps and wide 16 bits with large caches, better algorithms, large amounts
of RAM, multiple processors and processor speed that will literally burn you
if you touch the chip. But I'm wondering if the same chapter in the "Tweak
Your Server Handbook" has been copied over and over again from 20 years ago
without taking into consideration today's hardware performance.

Years ago, I remember everyone telling me I needed to upgrade my Novel
servers to faster machines. My response was "It's just file and print - it
won't make any difference, upgrade the network and it will go faster."
Well, management didn't see it my way - and I ended up spending lots of
company money on servers and more than a couple weekends to migrate the
data - and the performance increase was ZERO ! I loved that performance
review.

I always like a story with a happy ending.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Comeau, Steven" <scomeau@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Removing RAID5


Great to hear it was so smooth!



Steven Comeau

Manager, Corporate IT Systems

Main Tape

1 Capital Drive, Suite 101

Cranbury, NJ 08512

800-718-8273 x332

_____

From: Joe Rojas [mailto:jrojas@...]
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Removing RAID5



Hi All,

Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my
Vantage/Progress server.

To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all the pros
and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now though!).
I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my plan worked
despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!

Here is what I did:
1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the
"AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to manual and
rebooting the server.
2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5
partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this because I
had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data could have
been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from
complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor and one
called CorVu.
5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did
this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I _had_
too.
6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
9) Reboot into Windows
10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure
drive letter is the same), and format
11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
12) Recreate shares
13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
14) Reboot server

Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you couldn't use
RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the
Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk space,
you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data back,
and resume!

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing
+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=P
da+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+s
oftware&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marke
ting+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&
w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketi
ng+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+
software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pd
a+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+so
ftware&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marke
ting+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufact
uring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software
&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+market
ing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the
web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links










Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
While I can't speak for anyone other than myself, I did notice an immediate performance increase in the load times of all screens in Vantage after moving from a RAID5 (4 drives) to a RAID1+0 (4 drives).

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Charles Paluska - HPN
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Removing RAID5

I'm glad you were successful.

Most newer controllers have utility software to add drive space and modify
the raid configuration - some on the fly (I'm sure a big performance hit).
So if you were lucky to have a controller and software to do this you could
have saved alot of effort. On the other hand - you "know" that your system
is the way you want it now.

Has anyone actually benchmarked the Raid 5 performance issues in a real
world against a similar raid 10 ? The arguement against Raid 5 and
databases has been around so long (almost as long as me) that I'm beginning
to believe that this might actually be more of an urban legend. Sure, way
back drives were slow (5mbs) and narrow (8 bits) - along with processors and
slow bus speeds and small ram and cache sizes - every trick in the book was
needed to get performance up to an acceptable level. Now drives are fast
320mbps and wide 16 bits with large caches, better algorithms, large amounts
of RAM, multiple processors and processor speed that will literally burn you
if you touch the chip. But I'm wondering if the same chapter in the "Tweak
Your Server Handbook" has been copied over and over again from 20 years ago
without taking into consideration today's hardware performance.

Years ago, I remember everyone telling me I needed to upgrade my Novel
servers to faster machines. My response was "It's just file and print - it
won't make any difference, upgrade the network and it will go faster."
Well, management didn't see it my way - and I ended up spending lots of
company money on servers and more than a couple weekends to migrate the
data - and the performance increase was ZERO ! I loved that performance
review.

I always like a story with a happy ending.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Comeau, Steven" <scomeau@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Removing RAID5


Great to hear it was so smooth!



Steven Comeau

Manager, Corporate IT Systems

Main Tape

1 Capital Drive, Suite 101

Cranbury, NJ 08512

800-718-8273 x332

_____

From: Joe Rojas [mailto:jrojas@...]
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:28 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Removing RAID5



Hi All,

Just wanted to post my progress with trying to get rid of my RAID5 on my
Vantage/Progress server.

To recap, I had setup my server up with a RAID5 without knowing all the pros
and cons of using a RAID5 with a database server (I sure do now though!).
I wanted to delete the RAID5 and build a RAID1+0. To my glee, my plan worked
despite Epicor TS telling me that I would have to do a complete install!

Here is what I did:
1) Stop Vantage/Progress completely. For me this meant setting the
"AdminService for OpenEdge 10.0B" and "CorVu Broker" services to manual and
rebooting the server.
2) Make a backup of the database. (For peace of mind)
3) Copy the "Epicor" and "mfgsysdata" folder from the root of my RAID5
partition (in my case E:\) to my system drive (C:\). I did this because I
had the drive space on my system drive but in reality this data could have
been copied to anywhere. Network drive, DVD±R, external device, etc.
4) Remove all shares from RAID5 partition to eliminate Windows2K3 from
complaining about lost shares. I had two shares, one called epicor and one
called CorVu.
5) Use Windows Disk Management to delete partition on RAID5 (E:\). I did
this so Windows wouldn't think the partition was lost. Not sure if I _had_
too.
6) Reboot server and boot into RAID controller interface.
7) Delete RAID5 (was 4 drives)
8) Create RAID1+0 (4 drives)
9) Reboot into Windows
10) Using Disk Management, setup new drive, create partition (make sure
drive letter is the same), and format
11) Copy all files back over to RAID1+0 partition
12) Recreate shares
13) Change services in step 1 to automatic
14) Reboot server

Although, you may never have to do this (you probably knew you couldn't use
RAID5, unlike me!) it is important to note that you can manipulate the
Progress databases like this. If, for example, you ran out of disk space,
you could stop Progress, move data, install bigger drives, move data back,
and resume!

Thanks,
Joe Rojas
IT Manager
TNCO, Inc.
781-447-6661 x7506
jrojas@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188%20> &k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6%20> &k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s%20> &k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&%20> &k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6%20> &k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software
< http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&%20> &k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the
web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links










Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group " vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]