Vantage Performance tuning

Raid5 will kill the speed of any database, write speeds on raid5 are too slow. We run Vantage on a server with the system partition setup as a mirrored set, database and vantage app files located on a raid10 array. using a higher number of drives in a raid10 array will increase performance. our system runs great

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "randyduly" <randy.duly@...> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> You mentioned RAID-5 at the beginning of your email. Everything I read said don't use RAID-5 because of performance issues. Use RAID-10 instead. Are you using RAID-5 anywhere?
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mseal" <mseal@> wrote:
> >
> > Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way possible.
> > Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any other suggestions.
> > Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive much help.
> >
> > First our environment:
> > Vantage 803.404B – over 80 regular + MES licenses
> > MS-SQL dB (2005)
> > VMWare (ESX 4.0)
> > Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
> > EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels – RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle load.
> >
> > Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
> > SQL on 2003 STD addition
> >
> > In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
> > We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible performance.
> > After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
> > Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful – I have marked (*) the ones most beneficial
> >
> > Client Computers:
> > 1 – ensure AV does not scan Client folder
> > 2 – change system monitor settings – this may increase print preview performance by 50%
> > 3 – set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
> > 4 – set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
> > 5 – min memory – 2Gb
> > 6 – difrag HD
> >
> > SQL server:
> > 1 – move tempdb to RAID10
> > 2 – don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
> > 3 – consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
> > 4 – move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
> > 5 – move server to latest CPU ***
> > 6 – verify SQL index optimization
> >
> > Application server:
> > 1 - Setup with separate print server **
> > 2 - Upgrade to 803.409
> > 4 –Move app server on 64-bit *
> >
> > Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz
> >
> >
> > If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
> > Thanks
> > Motty
> >
>
Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way possible.
Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any other suggestions.
Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive much help.

First our environment:
Vantage 803.404B – over 80 regular + MES licenses
MS-SQL dB (2005)
VMWare (ESX 4.0)
Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels – RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle load.

Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
SQL on 2003 STD addition

In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible performance.
After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful – I have marked (*) the ones most beneficial

Client Computers:
1 – ensure AV does not scan Client folder
2 – change system monitor settings – this may increase print preview performance by 50%
3 – set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
4 – set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
5 – min memory – 2Gb
6 – difrag HD

SQL server:
1 – move tempdb to RAID10
2 – don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
3 – consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
4 – move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
5 – move server to latest CPU ***
6 – verify SQL index optimization

Application server:
1 - Setup with separate print server **
2 - Upgrade to 803.409
4 –Move app server on 64-bit *

Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz


If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
Thanks
Motty
Hi -

You mentioned RAID-5 at the beginning of your email. Everything I read said don't use RAID-5 because of performance issues. Use RAID-10 instead. Are you using RAID-5 anywhere?

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "mseal" <mseal@...> wrote:
>
> Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way possible.
> Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any other suggestions.
> Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive much help.
>
> First our environment:
> Vantage 803.404B – over 80 regular + MES licenses
> MS-SQL dB (2005)
> VMWare (ESX 4.0)
> Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
> EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels – RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle load.
>
> Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
> SQL on 2003 STD addition
>
> In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
> We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible performance.
> After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
> Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful – I have marked (*) the ones most beneficial
>
> Client Computers:
> 1 – ensure AV does not scan Client folder
> 2 – change system monitor settings – this may increase print preview performance by 50%
> 3 – set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
> 4 – set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
> 5 – min memory – 2Gb
> 6 – difrag HD
>
> SQL server:
> 1 – move tempdb to RAID10
> 2 – don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
> 3 – consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
> 4 – move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
> 5 – move server to latest CPU ***
> 6 – verify SQL index optimization
>
> Application server:
> 1 - Setup with separate print server **
> 2 - Upgrade to 803.409
> 4 –Move app server on 64-bit *
>
> Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz
>
>
> If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
> Thanks
> Motty
>
RAID 5 is a lot different on a SAN than server. We use RAID 6 across 14 spindles on our NetApp FAS 270. We have NAS, VMware and a RAW drive for SQL on the SAN. We went from RAID 10 on our SQL server to the RAW drive on the SAN and the improvement in speed was overwhelming.

Joe Luster
Network Administrator
Cold Jet, LLC
455 Wards Corner Road
Loveland, Ohio 45140
USA
+1 513-831-3211 x308 (office)
+1 513-831-1209 (fax)
www.coldjet.com<http://www.coldjet.com>
[cid:image001.jpg@01CAC101.C79DB510]
Setting industry standards in dry ice technology and solutions for over 20 years.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of randyduly
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage Performance tuning



Hi -

You mentioned RAID-5 at the beginning of your email. Everything I read said don't use RAID-5 because of performance issues. Use RAID-10 instead. Are you using RAID-5 anywhere?

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "mseal" <mseal@...> wrote:
>
> Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way possible.
> Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any other suggestions.
> Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive much help.
>
> First our environment:
> Vantage 803.404B - over 80 regular + MES licenses
> MS-SQL dB (2005)
> VMWare (ESX 4.0)
> Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
> EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels - RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle load.
>
> Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
> SQL on 2003 STD addition
>
> In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
> We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible performance.
> After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
> Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful - I have marked (*) the ones most beneficial
>
> Client Computers:
> 1 - ensure AV does not scan Client folder
> 2 - change system monitor settings - this may increase print preview performance by 50%
> 3 - set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
> 4 - set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
> 5 - min memory - 2Gb
> 6 - difrag HD
>
> SQL server:
> 1 - move tempdb to RAID10
> 2 - don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
> 3 - consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
> 4 - move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
> 5 - move server to latest CPU ***
> 6 - verify SQL index optimization
>
> Application server:
> 1 - Setup with separate print server **
> 2 - Upgrade to 803.409
> 4 -Move app server on 64-bit *
>
> Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz
>
>
> If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
> Thanks
> Motty
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Motty - which system monitor values and what values did you found most
helpful?
Where those changes made via the system monitor configuration in the system
monitor or in the .mfgsys file on the client system?



Dale Dalton





_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mseal
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Performance tuning





Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way
possible.
Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any
other suggestions.
Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to
performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive
much help.

First our environment:
Vantage 803.404B - over 80 regular + MES licenses
MS-SQL dB (2005)
VMWare (ESX 4.0)
Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels - RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and
RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle
load.

Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
SQL on 2003 STD addition

In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print
Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible
performance.
After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform
different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful - I have marked (*)
the ones most beneficial

Client Computers:
1 - ensure AV does not scan Client folder
2 - change system monitor settings - this may increase print preview
performance by 50%
3 - set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
4 - set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
5 - min memory - 2Gb
6 - difrag HD

SQL server:
1 - move tempdb to RAID10
2 - don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
3 - consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
4 - move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
5 - move server to latest CPU ***
6 - verify SQL index optimization

Application server:
1 - Setup with separate print server **
2 - Upgrade to 803.409
4 -Move app server on 64-bit *

Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz

If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
Thanks
Motty





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You can make changes in either place – if you use the system monitor it will update the .mfgsys file and a restart of Vantage will bring values to current session
We had the original Vantage default values of 30,000/ 3,000 / 15,000 changed to 120,000 / 3,000 / 60,000


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Dalton" <daled@...> wrote:
>
> Motty - which system monitor values and what values did you found most
> helpful?
> Where those changes made via the system monitor configuration in the system
> monitor or in the .mfgsys file on the client system?
>
>
>
> Dale Dalton
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> mseal
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage Performance tuning
>
>
>
>
>
> Over the last month we have been working on optimizing Vantage in every way
> possible.
> Wanted to share with all our findings and hear from others if there are any
> other suggestions.
> Would be nice if Epicor continued to test and publish all aspects related to
> performance tuning as many of us complain about the issue but don't receive
> much help.
>
> First our environment:
> Vantage 803.404B - over 80 regular + MES licenses
> MS-SQL dB (2005)
> VMWare (ESX 4.0)
> Cluster of Dell servers (1950) with 2 X Quad core and plenty of memory
> EMC SAN configuration has 3 storage levels - RAID-10 RAID5 on 15K SAS and
> RAID5 on SATA drives with 3 full shelves of drives to spread drive/spindle
> load.
>
> Epicor application server on Windows 2003 Enterprise with 8Gb
> SQL on 2003 STD addition
>
> In general we were not happy with system performance starting with Print
> Preview to night processes (MRP/PO Gen ..) to regular transactions.
> We evaluated client, server and systems to come up with best possible
> performance.
> After applying all changes we have realized a cut in the time to perform
> different processes and transactions form 25% to over 80%
> Here are the area we reviewed and the we found helpful - I have marked (*)
> the ones most beneficial
>
> Client Computers:
> 1 - ensure AV does not scan Client folder
> 2 - change system monitor settings - this may increase print preview
> performance by 50%
> 3 - set all users to `can suspend' - help eliminate client disconnects
> 4 - set all NICs to no power off - help eliminate client disconnects
> 5 - min memory - 2Gb
> 6 - difrag HD
>
> SQL server:
> 1 - move tempdb to RAID10
> 2 - don't scan MDF & LDF files (SQL)
> 3 - consider RAW device mapping (VMWare)
> 4 - move SQL to 64-bit server and OS to 64-bit ***
> 5 - move server to latest CPU ***
> 6 - verify SQL index optimization
>
> Application server:
> 1 - Setup with separate print server **
> 2 - Upgrade to 803.409
> 4 -Move app server on 64-bit *
>
> Chipset tested Xeon X5355 2.66Ghz and Xeon X5570 2.9Ghz
>
> If you want to know anything else regarding this study please post here
> Thanks
> Motty
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
"RAID 5 is a lot different on a SAN than server"

How do you figure? The algorithm is essentialy the same spindle for spindle regardless of connection (SAN or DAS).

Randy, for database applications (where IOPS is the name of the game) it's tough to beat RAID10, although you pay the 50% capacity penalty, but it's worth it in my opinion. Disks are relatively cheap.

What you've read is essentially correct. RAID5 is dead in the age of terabyte plus capacity hard drives. RAID5 can only tolerate a single spindle failure, meaning it's vulnerable while it's in the rebuilding state. A hot-spare doesn't really help here since the array will still have to rebuild. And with present day large capacity drives, the chances of another drive encountering an Unrecoverable Read Error (URE) during the rebuild process is high. This will trash the array and you're now restoring from backup. Chances of UREs are decreased with smaller enterprise class disks, but the risk is still there.

RAID6 is better, but still has the same potential, although that would require two disk failures + URE during rebuild to trash the array. Also, I wouldn't implement RAID6 with anything less than 9 spindles.
Jared

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Joe Luster <jluster@...> wrote:
>
> RAID 5 is a lot different on a SAN than server. We use RAID 6 across 14 spindles on our NetApp FAS 270. We have NAS, VMware and a RAW drive for SQL on the SAN. We went from RAID 10 on our SQL server to the RAW drive on the SAN and the improvement in speed was overwhelming.
>
> Joe Luster
> Network Administrator
> Cold Jet, LLC
> 455 Wards Corner Road
> Loveland, Ohio 45140
> USA
> +1 513-831-3211 x308 (office)
> +1 513-831-1209 (fax)
> www.coldjet.com<http://www.coldjet.com>
> [cid:image001.jpg@...]
> Setting industry standards in dry ice technology and solutions for over 20 years.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of randyduly
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:28 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage Performance tuning
>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> You mentioned RAID-5 at the beginning of your email. Everything I read said don't use RAID-5 because of performance issues. Use RAID-10 instead. Are you using RAID-5 anywhere?
Joe,
I was wondering about your comment on Raw Device Mapping on VMWare.
From all the benchmarks I see on VM Ware's site, can see a significant difference in SQL performance. Have you tested it and is it really that much faster?
Also, what type of RDM are you using? Compatible with snapshots?

Thanks
Motty


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "k99ja04" <jallmond@...> wrote:
>
> "RAID 5 is a lot different on a SAN than server"
>
> How do you figure? The algorithm is essentialy the same spindle for spindle regardless of connection (SAN or DAS).
>
> Randy, for database applications (where IOPS is the name of the game) it's tough to beat RAID10, although you pay the 50% capacity penalty, but it's worth it in my opinion. Disks are relatively cheap.
>
> What you've read is essentially correct. RAID5 is dead in the age of terabyte plus capacity hard drives. RAID5 can only tolerate a single spindle failure, meaning it's vulnerable while it's in the rebuilding state. A hot-spare doesn't really help here since the array will still have to rebuild. And with present day large capacity drives, the chances of another drive encountering an Unrecoverable Read Error (URE) during the rebuild process is high. This will trash the array and you're now restoring from backup. Chances of UREs are decreased with smaller enterprise class disks, but the risk is still there.
>
> RAID6 is better, but still has the same potential, although that would require two disk failures + URE during rebuild to trash the array. Also, I wouldn't implement RAID6 with anything less than 9 spindles.
> Jared
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Joe Luster <jluster@> wrote:
> >
> > RAID 5 is a lot different on a SAN than server. We use RAID 6 across 14 spindles on our NetApp FAS 270. We have NAS, VMware and a RAW drive for SQL on the SAN. We went from RAID 10 on our SQL server to the RAW drive on the SAN and the improvement in speed was overwhelming.
> >
> > Joe Luster
> > Network Administrator
> > Cold Jet, LLC
> > 455 Wards Corner Road
> > Loveland, Ohio 45140
> > USA
> > +1 513-831-3211 x308 (office)
> > +1 513-831-1209 (fax)
> > www.coldjet.com<http://www.coldjet.com>
> > [cid:image001.jpg@]
> > Setting industry standards in dry ice technology and solutions for over 20 years.
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of randyduly
> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:28 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage Performance tuning
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi -
> >
> > You mentioned RAID-5 at the beginning of your email. Everything I read said don't use RAID-5 because of performance issues. Use RAID-10 instead. Are you using RAID-5 anywhere?
>