Vantage - Cost of New User License

Yahoo Archive
1
Aaron Hoyt wrote:
>
> To add my thoughts...
> We are holding our breath.


We paid $3960 earlier this year for one seat. This price was "on sale"
(Blue-light special?).

Actually I think "the Ep" is doing us all a favor!! I really, really
avoid going to the well to get funds approval for a new license each and
every time!! So this is a cost cutting measure provided by our software
firm.

Actually we are still on 3.0; I have 4.0 in the envelope still; after
5.0 arrives I may suggest we drop the &*%$@#$% maintenance expense (for
my <4 calls per year) and bank the $$.

I think that we should only pay for an upgrade if it includes the fixes
(which is pathetic in its own right) and features that we actually want!

I really don't want to pay for SQL when Vantage doesn't even come up to
speed as it is.

And I'm pissed that I have to use ODBC so extensively to get my data.

I have a bunch more rant left, but it's only Monday morning and my blood
pressure has started to ascend again...

Thanks for the pressure relief valve...

Rick
MIS
Osco
2
We ordered another user license last week and today I got the news the the
cost has increased substantially - $1,500 Canadian to be precise. I was
wondering if there had been any advance notice of this and I just missed it
or if anyone else had heard about this.

Gilda Collins
Pride Signs Ltd.
Tel: (519) 220 0505
Fax: (519) 220 0606
3
!!!!!!!!EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! I was quoted $3,500.00 American!!!!! EACH. That
should be about $5,100.00 Canadian. NOT $1,500.00 Canadian.

Shirley H. Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
Cleveland/Akron, Ohio




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
I thought she was saying the price INCREASED $1500 (Canadian), not that the
price was $1500???
5
Shirley,

I think she meant that it had gone up $1500 canadian, but I was quoted
$3960/user so you should feel lucky. We wanted to replace an older system
at a branch office that only cost us $999 and has 99% of the functionality
of Vantage without all the pretty screens. After getting the price of 5
user licenses that shot that idea in the A##.

It's crazy that user licenses cost after we paid soooo much for the
technology to begin with. Alot of software manufacturers either make their
money per seat or per server, Epicor gets fat on both!!! GREED is a
wonderful thing isn't it???

Take care,

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:59 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License
>
>
> !!!!!!!!EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! I was quoted $3,500.00
> American!!!!! EACH. That
> should be about $5,100.00 Canadian. NOT $1,500.00 Canadian.
>
> Shirley H. Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
> Cleveland/Akron, Ohio
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> password, choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose
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6
OHH !!! Thats different then. Whats that word I've heard, hmm starts with G
rhyms with reed. I forget.

Shirley H. Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
Cleveland/Akron, Ohio




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
Darren,

Not to get my knickers in a twist, but we were quoted $4070/user. And then
there's the 10%/year maintenance! How about relating this kind of expense
with the thread that has been going the last couple of days about the
difficulty in getting bugs fixed. Kind of a cost/benefit ratio. I really
like Vantage. I haven't found anything even close to it for the type of
work we do. Right now we are running short 2 licenses. The president of
our company said he would do without rather than spend this kind of money
for a license.

Bob Bruton

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:33 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License


Shirley,

I think she meant that it had gone up $1500 canadian, but I was quoted
$3960/user so you should feel lucky. We wanted to replace an older system
at a branch office that only cost us $999 and has 99% of the functionality
of Vantage without all the pretty screens. After getting the price of 5
user licenses that shot that idea in the A##.

It's crazy that user licenses cost after we paid soooo much for the
technology to begin with. Alot of software manufacturers either make their
money per seat or per server, Epicor gets fat on both!!! GREED is a
wonderful thing isn't it???

Take care,

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:59 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License
>
>
> !!!!!!!!EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! I was quoted $3,500.00
> American!!!!! EACH. That
> should be about $5,100.00 Canadian. NOT $1,500.00 Canadian.
>
> Shirley H. Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
> Cleveland/Akron, Ohio
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
Shirley & Darren,

None of this will help you in your current situation but ...

Next time you purchase a software package you may want to add an addendum to
the PO that specifies the cost for additional users and locks it in. Once
you purchase the package any leverage you may have had tends to disappear.

Add something like "company-xyz agrees to sell company-abc additional user
licenses for a fixed price of $ 2,000 per user for as long as the software
is under maintenance".

An additional clause that is one of my personal favorites is "Maintenance
fees per year may not increase more than 5% per year."

Also, if you are planning on purchasing the "Entire" package you also need
to add a clause that states "Any new modules created by company-xyz will
provided for "Free" since you are purchasing the "Entire" package." Given
EPICOR's propensity for creating new modules that you have to pay for this
is the one clause that I missed when we purchased Vantage.

In either case if you want that price protection the only time you have any
chance of getting it is on the initial purchase of the package.

This isn't to say that EPICOR will easily give you these clauses but you're
only chance is on the original PO. It will depend on how deeply you dig in
your heels and on weather you have another package under review that you can
use as competition for the deal.

And, it isn't just EPICOR that you have keep your eyes wide open with ...
these are industry wide issues. So before you cuss out EPICOR keep in mind
that you'll find other software companies out there that are far worse.
It's a buyer beware situation.

Todd Anderson
J. Rubin & Co.

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 9:33 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License


Shirley,

I think she meant that it had gone up $1500 canadian, but I was quoted
$3960/user so you should feel lucky. We wanted to replace an older system
at a branch office that only cost us $999 and has 99% of the functionality
of Vantage without all the pretty screens. After getting the price of 5
user licenses that shot that idea in the A##.

It's crazy that user licenses cost after we paid soooo much for the
technology to begin with. Alot of software manufacturers either make their
money per seat or per server, Epicor gets fat on both!!! GREED is a
wonderful thing isn't it???

Take care,

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:59 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License
>
>
> !!!!!!!!EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! I was quoted $3,500.00
> American!!!!! EACH. That
> should be about $5,100.00 Canadian. NOT $1,500.00 Canadian.
>
> Shirley H. Graver
> Systems Administrator
> Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
> Cleveland/Akron, Ohio
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
> -------------------------~-~>
> Get free updates on your stocks from any phone with Tellme!
> Call 1-800-555-TELL.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/9535/13/_/411782/_/971359007/
<http://click.egroups.com/1/9535/13/_/411782/_/971359007/>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------_->
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share
> Report Files, please go to the following link:
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<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
> try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your
> password, choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose
> Files. If you save the password, the link above will work
> the next time you try it.)
>
>


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9
Gawd, I hate paying in US Dollars. I purchased 5 new Office seats last year
at a cost of $14000 US (approx 21,000). I assume you purchased a data
collection license. I seem to recall them telling me each additional data
collection license was $995 US. Was really ticks me off is after the
investment in the additional seats, is the added maintenance costs....Huge
dollars for my 4 calls a years....

Bob Goss
BC Instruments
905-939-7323 (332)


-----Original Message-----
From: Gilda Collins [mailto:gcollins@...]
Sent: October 12, 2000 9:41 AM
To: 'Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License


We ordered another user license last week and today I got the news the the
cost has increased substantially - $1,500 Canadian to be precise. I was
wondering if there had been any advance notice of this and I just missed it
or if anyone else had heard about this.

Gilda Collins
Pride Signs Ltd.
Tel: (519) 220 0505
Fax: (519) 220 0606



We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
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choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)
10
Hey Todd,
Epicor is going to drop a piano on you!
11
If you have users (typically upper management) that can live with day old
info, you can make a daily copy of your production database and have them
log on to the copy. The Vantage license limit is per database so if you
have 2 databases running you can double the number of users that can logon (
X number of users on the production database and X number of users on the
copied database).

The catch is that the copy is static as of the time of being copied from the
production database. But every company has some users that don't need the
real-time info, and these users would not be eating up seats on the
production database.

What does a falling piano sound like.????

Jerry Solobay
Ebco Aerospace

-----Original Message-----
From: Plaman Dick [SMTP:dick.plaman@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:04 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License

Hey Todd,
Epicor is going to drop a piano on you!

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12
My mistake...that is news to me Gilda. I received a quote at 3500 US per
seat. Bought 4 asked for a free one. That's a HUGE increase to pay $7,000
cdn......

-----Original Message-----
From: Gilda Collins [mailto:gcollins@...]
Sent: October 12, 2000 11:24 AM
To: 'Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: FW: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License


We are on Version 3. Our costs to date per user license has been $5,550
Canadian and that is the cost which has been raised to $7,000.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:BrianB@...]
Sent: October 12, 2000 9:50 AM
To: Gilda Collins
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License


What version of Vantage are you using? The last time we checked, a user
license for us would cost $5200.

On a more social note, I didn't realize we had another Vantage user so close
by. We are over by the police HQ at Maple Grove and Cherry Blossom. I heard
the next closest facility using Vantage is in Georgetown.

Brian Boyes,
Systems Administrator,
Precision Resource Canada Ltd.
<http://www.precisionresource.com>
<mailto:brianb@...>

> We ordered another user license last week and today I got the
> news the the
> cost has increased substantially - $1,500 Canadian to be
> precise. I was
> wondering if there had been any advance notice of this and I
> just missed it
> or if anyone else had heard about this.
>
> Gilda Collins
> Pride Signs Ltd.
> Tel: (519) 220 0505
> Fax: (519) 220 0606


We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
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(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)
13
Its not the noise the piano makes, its the watery splat that can occur when
ONE isunder it. Though if there are ENOUGH people under the piano you can
catch it and throw it back at em.

Shirley H. Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
Cleveland/Akron, Ohio


What does a falling piano sound like.????




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14
>
> What does a falling piano sound like.????
>
A-Flat-Minor(bug)
15
Hi Bob,

I don't think your President is the only one feeling this way....

> work we do. Right now we are running short 2 licenses. The
> president of
> our company said he would do without rather than spend this
> kind of money
> for a license.

I have got to think a lot of business is lost from the high prices we have
spoke of. This system was supposedly designed for the little guys who can
not afford the BAAN type systems and yet the prices are really pushing
upward to the point that the small shops will not even look at Epicor. It
would be a good time for sales to reexamine where they want this program to
go. I see a need to cut user licenses and maintenance fees to make this
more affordable. The economy is definitely slowing and business is down, as
a result Epicor's business will be slowing also. Price cuts will be
necessary for both of our survival.

I think that Epicor has gotten an ear full lately and should see that the
natives are restless. You need to take care of the existing customers,
isn't that good business? Any volunteers to hold their breath until
something happens???

I honestly would not recommend this system to anyone at this point.

Based on its' out of control pricing structure, high maintenance fees, and
its high incidence to slow bug fixes. The product has great potential and
seems to be at a pivotal point in its growth curve. Someone spoke in the
related thread that the problems point to poor management, I have to agree.
Sales are driving and controlling this company instead of
technology/development. If you build a good, solid product that people can
use and do it at a fair price, the sales will come. By sales, I mean new
sales not maintenance fees. The pricing structure I would setup:

Cut per module costs by 25%
User licenses - $250
Data Collection - $50
Maintenance fees - $1000/yr
Patches - free
Version upgrades - $2500 (for non maintenance users)
Tech Support - free

We would probably have to get rid of a few of the higher ups but wouldn't it
be nicer from our point of view. It's GOOD to dream!!!

Regards,

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.
16
To add my thoughts...
We are holding our breath. We have been off maintenance for over a year, we
are short by more like 4 licenses but there is no way I can get the VP to
agree to the outlandish request for money by Epicor. Just to get back on
the wagon they originally sent us an invoice of the entire time we were off
maintenance. Hmm, no support yet you pay anyway. Well my frustration is
very high.
So if you are looking for someone to hold their breath...We have been
holding.
Glad (I think) to see we are not the only ones with frustrations.
Waiting...

Aaron Hoyt
System Administrator
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:Aaron@...>
17
The pricing is one of the main bugs, and that is why we are also running
short licenses also.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [SMTP:dmann@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 4:54 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage - Cost of New User License

Hi Bob,

I don't think your President is the only one feeling this
way....

> work we do. Right now we are running short 2 licenses. The
> president of
> our company said he would do without rather than spend this
> kind of money
> for a license.

I have got to think a lot of business is lost from the high
prices we have
spoke of. This system was supposedly designed for the little
guys who can
not afford the BAAN type systems and yet the prices are really
pushing
upward to the point that the small shops will not even look at
Epicor. It
would be a good time for sales to reexamine where they want this
program to
go. I see a need to cut user licenses and maintenance fees to
make this
more affordable. The economy is definitely slowing and business
is down, as
a result Epicor's business will be slowing also. Price cuts
will be
necessary for both of our survival.

I think that Epicor has gotten an ear full lately and should see
that the
natives are restless. You need to take care of the existing
customers,
isn't that good business? Any volunteers to hold their breath
until
something happens???

I honestly would not recommend this system to anyone at this
point.

Based on its' out of control pricing structure, high maintenance
fees, and
its high incidence to slow bug fixes. The product has great
potential and
seems to be at a pivotal point in its growth curve. Someone
spoke in the
related thread that the problems point to poor management, I
have to agree.
Sales are driving and controlling this company instead of
technology/development. If you build a good, solid product that
people can
use and do it at a fair price, the sales will come. By sales, I
mean new
sales not maintenance fees. The pricing structure I would
setup:

Cut per module costs by 25%
User licenses - $250
Data Collection - $50
Maintenance fees - $1000/yr
Patches - free
Version upgrades - $2500 (for non maintenance users)
Tech Support - free

We would probably have to get rid of a few of the higher ups but
wouldn't it
be nicer from our point of view. It's GOOD to dream!!!

Regards,

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.





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(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
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choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)