6.10 First Articles and the Schedule

Yahoo Archive
1
Hi,

First article inspection is for quality/inspection management. E.g.
inspection plans, inspection queues etc. Does not relate to
workcenters directly.





--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Belzer" <bbelzer@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for both of your responses. At our company the cost of the
> machine being tied up is directly related to an overhead expense,
> inspection.
>
>
>
> The costing works fine for us as-is, but I just want to make the
machine
> unavailable for those hours where it is waiting for the first
article to
> be completed.
>
>
>
> Is that what the first article feature in vantage is for?
>
>
>
> Thanks!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Ben Belzer
>
> Manager
> Inside Sales
>
> TCI Precision Metals
> 800.234.5613.W
> 310.323.1255.F
> bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer@...>
> www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of ami_miker
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:57 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.10 First Articles and the Schedule
>
>
>
> I agree with Brychan. I am also not an accountant, but I play one
> on TV. If the machine is tied up for 9 hours, what is the
> difference between 10 minutes of inspection and 8 hours of
> inspection. If the machine can't be used for other products, I
> would tie the cost to the product holding up the machine.
>
> Another way to look at it is this: What would you do your quality
> plan for the part required a lot of quick checks throughout the
> operation instead of long first article at the end?
>
> From a profitability standpoint, I want to sell more products that
> require 5 hours of machine time and 1 hour of inspection instead
of
> 5 hours of machine time and 4 hours of inspection, especially if
the
> machine is tied up during inspection.
>
> (Sales may now throw their virtual rotten fruit at this time.)
>
> Michael Randolph
> Infinity Business Consulting
> mrandolph@... <mailto:mrandolph%40infinitybc.com>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "brychanwilliams" <brychanw@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't think this is possible through standard vantage. I mean
in
> > terms of matching off the costing and the time. You could create
> > another operation with zero cost and associate it with the work
> > centre. This would remove the labour element of the cost. This
> sort
> > out the time issue.
> >
> > However, it would not remove the burden because you have the
same
> > work centre. This then goes into accounting issues of what
should
> be
> > recovered from the job and eventually roles into budgets and
> > allocation of costs at that level.
> >
> > My personal perference but I'm not an accountant, if this is a
> > regular thing that the cost of asset standing still due to a job
> > should be recovered. However, this has great ramifications on
the
> > costing etc.
> >
> > There may be an option within APS but I am not sure how much APS
> > deals with cost.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
2
I have a question about how to run first articles. Here is the
scenario:



Job 12345



Opr 10 WC 100 CNC Machine (1 Hour)

Opr 20 WC 200 First Article Inspection (4 hours)

Opr 30 WC 100 CNC Machine (4 Hours)



Currently we account for first articles as a separate operation. This
means that during the 4 hours that this part is there, the schedule
thinks we have open time for another job. In reality we keep the
machine tied up until the first article is done, so we can finish the
same parts on the machine.



We don't want to have 1 operation (WC 100) for 9 hours (including the
inspection time) because the quoting system will have us charge for 9
hours instead of 5 on that machine.



How can we tie up the machine for 9 hours on the schedule, but only
charge for 5.





I have looked into the First Article feature that Vantage has included.
It allows for a piece count, but not time. I thought maybe that was the
route I should be taking.



Does anyone have any suggestions? It would be much appreciated.



Thanks in advance,

Ben





Ben Belzer

Manager
Inside Sales

TCI Precision Metals
800.234.5613.W
310.323.1255.F
bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer@...>
www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
have you tried move or queue time on the work center or operation?


Innovative Office Products, Inc.
Frank Zeigafuse
General Manager
610-559-6369
fzeigafuse@...

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ben Belzer
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 2:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] 6.10 First Articles and the Schedule



I have a question about how to run first articles. Here is the
scenario:

Job 12345

Opr 10 WC 100 CNC Machine (1 Hour)

Opr 20 WC 200 First Article Inspection (4 hours)

Opr 30 WC 100 CNC Machine (4 Hours)

Currently we account for first articles as a separate operation.
This
means that during the 4 hours that this part is there, the
schedule
thinks we have open time for another job. In reality we keep the
machine tied up until the first article is done, so we can
finish the
same parts on the machine.

We don't want to have 1 operation (WC 100) for 9 hours
(including the
inspection time) because the quoting system will have us charge
for 9
hours instead of 5 on that machine.

How can we tie up the machine for 9 hours on the schedule, but
only
charge for 5.

I have looked into the First Article feature that Vantage has
included.
It allows for a piece count, but not time. I thought maybe that
was the
route I should be taking.

Does anyone have any suggestions? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Ben

Ben Belzer

Manager
Inside Sales

TCI Precision Metals
800.234.5613.W
310.323.1255.F
bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com>
<mailto:bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com> >
www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/
<http://www.tciprecision.com/> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
Yes, but that can only be modified as a work center default, correct?



This would be the exception to the rule.



Thanks,

Ben





Ben Belzer

Manager
Inside Sales

TCI Precision Metals
800.234.5613.W
310.323.1255.F
bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer@...>
www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Frank Zeigafuse
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:51 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 6.10 First Articles and the Schedule



have you tried move or queue time on the work center or operation?


Innovative Office Products, Inc.
Frank Zeigafuse
General Manager
610-559-6369
fzeigafuse@... <mailto:fzeigafuse%40lcdarms.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Ben Belzer
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 2:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] 6.10 First Articles and the Schedule



I have a question about how to run first articles. Here is the
scenario:

Job 12345

Opr 10 WC 100 CNC Machine (1 Hour)

Opr 20 WC 200 First Article Inspection (4 hours)

Opr 30 WC 100 CNC Machine (4 Hours)

Currently we account for first articles as a separate operation.
This
means that during the 4 hours that this part is there, the
schedule
thinks we have open time for another job. In reality we keep the
machine tied up until the first article is done, so we can
finish the
same parts on the machine.

We don't want to have 1 operation (WC 100) for 9 hours
(including the
inspection time) because the quoting system will have us charge
for 9
hours instead of 5 on that machine.

How can we tie up the machine for 9 hours on the schedule, but
only
charge for 5.

I have looked into the First Article feature that Vantage has
included.
It allows for a piece count, but not time. I thought maybe that
was the
route I should be taking.

Does anyone have any suggestions? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Ben

Ben Belzer

Manager
Inside Sales

TCI Precision Metals
800.234.5613.W
310.323.1255.F
bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com>
<mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com>
<mailto:bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com>
<mailto:bbelzer%40tciprecision.com> >
www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/
<http://www.tciprecision.com/>
<http://www.tciprecision.com/ <http://www.tciprecision.com/> > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Hi,

I don't think this is possible through standard vantage. I mean in
terms of matching off the costing and the time. You could create
another operation with zero cost and associate it with the work
centre. This would remove the labour element of the cost. This sort
out the time issue.

However, it would not remove the burden because you have the same
work centre. This then goes into accounting issues of what should be
recovered from the job and eventually roles into budgets and
allocation of costs at that level.

My personal perference but I'm not an accountant, if this is a
regular thing that the cost of asset standing still due to a job
should be recovered. However, this has great ramifications on the
costing etc.

There may be an option within APS but I am not sure how much APS
deals with cost.

Hope this helps.


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Belzer" <bbelzer@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question about how to run first articles. Here is the
> scenario:
>
>
>
> Job 12345
>
>
>
> Opr 10 WC 100 CNC Machine (1 Hour)
>
> Opr 20 WC 200 First Article Inspection (4 hours)
>
> Opr 30 WC 100 CNC Machine (4 Hours)
>
>
>
> Currently we account for first articles as a separate operation.
This
> means that during the 4 hours that this part is there, the schedule
> thinks we have open time for another job. In reality we keep the
> machine tied up until the first article is done, so we can finish
the
> same parts on the machine.
>
>
>
> We don't want to have 1 operation (WC 100) for 9 hours (including
the
> inspection time) because the quoting system will have us charge
for 9
> hours instead of 5 on that machine.
>
>
>
> How can we tie up the machine for 9 hours on the schedule, but only
> charge for 5.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have looked into the First Article feature that Vantage has
included.
> It allows for a piece count, but not time. I thought maybe that
was the
> route I should be taking.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions? It would be much appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> Ben Belzer
>
> Manager
> Inside Sales
>
> TCI Precision Metals
> 800.234.5613.W
> 310.323.1255.F
> bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer@...>
> www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
6
Just thinking, if you created a new operation. This would need,
probably, a customisation from epicor. In quotation or job entry
when a combination of the workcentre and operation are used then the
customisation would zero the cost. You can do this manually in the
job entry operation maintenance screen.



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "brychanwilliams" <brychanw@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I don't think this is possible through standard vantage. I mean in
> terms of matching off the costing and the time. You could create
> another operation with zero cost and associate it with the work
> centre. This would remove the labour element of the cost. This
sort
> out the time issue.
>
> However, it would not remove the burden because you have the same
> work centre. This then goes into accounting issues of what should
be
> recovered from the job and eventually roles into budgets and
> allocation of costs at that level.
>
> My personal perference but I'm not an accountant, if this is a
> regular thing that the cost of asset standing still due to a job
> should be recovered. However, this has great ramifications on the
> costing etc.
>
> There may be an option within APS but I am not sure how much APS
> deals with cost.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Belzer" <bbelzer@> wrote:
> >
> > I have a question about how to run first articles. Here is the
> > scenario:
> >
> >
> >
> > Job 12345
> >
> >
> >
> > Opr 10 WC 100 CNC Machine (1 Hour)
> >
> > Opr 20 WC 200 First Article Inspection (4 hours)
> >
> > Opr 30 WC 100 CNC Machine (4 Hours)
> >
> >
> >
> > Currently we account for first articles as a separate
operation.
> This
> > means that during the 4 hours that this part is there, the
schedule
> > thinks we have open time for another job. In reality we keep the
> > machine tied up until the first article is done, so we can
finish
> the
> > same parts on the machine.
> >
> >
> >
> > We don't want to have 1 operation (WC 100) for 9 hours
(including
> the
> > inspection time) because the quoting system will have us charge
> for 9
> > hours instead of 5 on that machine.
> >
> >
> >
> > How can we tie up the machine for 9 hours on the schedule, but
only
> > charge for 5.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have looked into the First Article feature that Vantage has
> included.
> > It allows for a piece count, but not time. I thought maybe that
> was the
> > route I should be taking.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions? It would be much appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ben Belzer
> >
> > Manager
> > Inside Sales
> >
> > TCI Precision Metals
> > 800.234.5613.W
> > 310.323.1255.F
> > bbelzer@ <mailto:bbelzer@>
> > www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
7
I agree with Brychan. I am also not an accountant, but I play one
on TV. If the machine is tied up for 9 hours, what is the
difference between 10 minutes of inspection and 8 hours of
inspection. If the machine can't be used for other products, I
would tie the cost to the product holding up the machine.

Another way to look at it is this: What would you do your quality
plan for the part required a lot of quick checks throughout the
operation instead of long first article at the end?

From a profitability standpoint, I want to sell more products that
require 5 hours of machine time and 1 hour of inspection instead of
5 hours of machine time and 4 hours of inspection, especially if the
machine is tied up during inspection.

(Sales may now throw their virtual rotten fruit at this time.)

Michael Randolph
Infinity Business Consulting
mrandolph@...



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "brychanwilliams" <brychanw@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I don't think this is possible through standard vantage. I mean in
> terms of matching off the costing and the time. You could create
> another operation with zero cost and associate it with the work
> centre. This would remove the labour element of the cost. This
sort
> out the time issue.
>
> However, it would not remove the burden because you have the same
> work centre. This then goes into accounting issues of what should
be
> recovered from the job and eventually roles into budgets and
> allocation of costs at that level.
>
> My personal perference but I'm not an accountant, if this is a
> regular thing that the cost of asset standing still due to a job
> should be recovered. However, this has great ramifications on the
> costing etc.
>
> There may be an option within APS but I am not sure how much APS
> deals with cost.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
8
Thanks for both of your responses. At our company the cost of the
machine being tied up is directly related to an overhead expense,
inspection.



The costing works fine for us as-is, but I just want to make the machine
unavailable for those hours where it is waiting for the first article to
be completed.



Is that what the first article feature in vantage is for?



Thanks!!





Ben Belzer

Manager
Inside Sales

TCI Precision Metals
800.234.5613.W
310.323.1255.F
bbelzer@... <mailto:bbelzer@...>
www.tciprecision.com <http://www.tciprecision.com/>



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ami_miker
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.10 First Articles and the Schedule



I agree with Brychan. I am also not an accountant, but I play one
on TV. If the machine is tied up for 9 hours, what is the
difference between 10 minutes of inspection and 8 hours of
inspection. If the machine can't be used for other products, I
would tie the cost to the product holding up the machine.

Another way to look at it is this: What would you do your quality
plan for the part required a lot of quick checks throughout the
operation instead of long first article at the end?

From a profitability standpoint, I want to sell more products that
require 5 hours of machine time and 1 hour of inspection instead of
5 hours of machine time and 4 hours of inspection, especially if the
machine is tied up during inspection.

(Sales may now throw their virtual rotten fruit at this time.)

Michael Randolph
Infinity Business Consulting
mrandolph@... <mailto:mrandolph%40infinitybc.com>

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"brychanwilliams" <brychanw@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I don't think this is possible through standard vantage. I mean in
> terms of matching off the costing and the time. You could create
> another operation with zero cost and associate it with the work
> centre. This would remove the labour element of the cost. This
sort
> out the time issue.
>
> However, it would not remove the burden because you have the same
> work centre. This then goes into accounting issues of what should
be
> recovered from the job and eventually roles into budgets and
> allocation of costs at that level.
>
> My personal perference but I'm not an accountant, if this is a
> regular thing that the cost of asset standing still due to a job
> should be recovered. However, this has great ramifications on the
> costing etc.
>
> There may be an option within APS but I am not sure how much APS
> deals with cost.
>
> Hope this helps.
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]