Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions

Yahoo Archive
1
Thank you for your thoughts and I look forward to meeting you on the
26th when Joe, Wes Wagner (our president), and I visit your facility.
Joe requested I furnish you with what we would like to see/discuss. Wes
will be primarily interested in discussing BOM setup, production
resource setup, route setup, etc. as he is most involved in the
production side of our operations. I am involved in the financial side
and my questions would deal with financial reporting and preparation of
financial statements along with extracting information from Vantage for
manipulation in other programs (Excel, Access, etc.). Essentially our
concern, based upon horrendous experience with our current system, is to
satisfy ourselves that the program we wind up selecting does what the
sales process leads us to believe it will do. We think an on-site
discussion with actual users will go a long way towards easing our minds
and very much appreciate the chance to meet with you and discuss your
company's experience with Vantage.



Russell Wheatley

Internal Audit Manager

Innotek Powder Coatings, LLC

915-686-5951







-----Original Message-----
From: rocket7247 [mailto:jglenn@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 02:04 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions



Russell,

Before you make a decision, I recommend that you have each vendor
give you a live demonstration of their product. When we bought
Vantage, we first developed a requirements document for the
functionality we wanted in a manufacturing/ERP system. I read a
survey of the top 100 rated Manufacturing/ERP venders in I believe
the "Manufacturing Systems (MIS)" magazine. Then I contacted some of
the vendors and got specifications and demo software from many
vendors. Vantage provided all of the functionality we wanted, at the
price we wanted.Others vendors competed but wanted too much money and
were more complex. Vantage was very reasonable and just as
functional. We have had veery good experience with Vantage and great
support from their technical support group and consulting group. The
yearly maintenance cost is based on a the number of users and seem to
be in line with the industry standard which is around 15%. We have a
very unique operation and have been able to make Vantage work for us
without customization. Most companies are unique and no COTS ERP
software can accomodate every unique aspect of business operations. I
am the Vantage technical administrator. Please call me if you have
any additional questions.

Joan Glenn
IT Manager
Rothe Joint Venture
NASA/JSC
281-483-3474



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
I work for Innotek Powder Coatings, LLC in Big Spring, Texas. Our
company is in the final evaluation stage of purchasing either Vantage
or the Global Shop Solutions package and Vantage has graciously given
us access to this user group.

We would appreciate any comments you might have about either package,
but are especially interested in your comments about Vantage, such as:

Would you recommend that we purchase it? Why or why not?
Has Vantage performed as well as you expected it to?
How would you rate the Vantage tech support? User documentation?
Are there specific areas the Vantage does well or not-so-well?
Any comments you have that might impact our decision.

We are basically asking for input from real users that work with
Vantage everyday and have seen how it helps or hinders daily business
activities. Your comments would be greatly appreciated and, if
possible, we would like to hear from you by June 21, 2002.

Russell Wheatley
Internal Audit Manager
3
At 02:01 PM 6/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>company is in the final evaluation stage of purchasing either Vantage
>or the Global Shop Solutions package and Vantage has graciously given
>us access to this user group.

Nice of them to refer you; but for the record, the mailing list is owned &
moderated by end users and operated via a free service of Yahoo. Epicor
does not control it. Many Epicor employees lurk on the list but they only
allow 1 or 2 higher-ups to post.

If you sign in to the Yahoo groups page, you can view and search earlier
posts. I posted one about Global Shop a few months ago that you should be
able to find. I'll try to scrounge up a copy to forward directly to you,
too. You can also look for yesterday's posts on the User4User conference
to get an idea of how "gracious" Epicor can be *after* you've bought the
product.

Russell, please give me a call (# in sig.) -- Vantage and G.S.S. were two
of the final ERP candidates I was evaluating 3 years ago. I can fill you
in on our experience with that process.

-Wayne Cox
Twenty Three -- Information Technology Consulting
828-685-2338
4
This is the group that deals with the knotty, day to day, get grease on your
face, (Oh my White Blouse) kind of problems. They pay me the big bucks
(sarcasim) to do that. The bottom line, my users are happy, the owners are
not unhappy (are they EVER happy), and we have a wonderful group of friends
here in this active dynamic list. We hope you join up.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
I have to say, since I just got my invoice for annual "support", this is a
bad time to be asking for a referral on Epicor... Before I say something
I'll regret, I'll just say this, when evaluating the products, make sure you
are aware of everything you are signing up for, including future
support/maintenance costs and costs for future 'enhancements' that you have
to purchase in full as separate modules...

Also, if there is an aspect of the system that is important to you, make
sure they have a large user base in that aspect of the system. If not, your
enhancement requests will never get added to the software and you'll feel
like you have spent $50,000 in maintenance fees for very little added-value.

Also, if there is a specific module you are interested in, ask about all the
details before purchasing the system so you don't wind up buying something
that is useless.

I don't remember Global Shop, but they did not make it as one of my final
3...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
Amen, Sarah.

Gary Polvinale
Denton ATD

-----Original Message-----
From: sarah.vareschi@... [mailto:sarah.vareschi@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions


I have to say, since I just got my invoice for annual "support", this is a
bad time to be asking for a referral on Epicor... Before I say something
I'll regret, I'll just say this, when evaluating the products, make sure you
are aware of everything you are signing up for, including future
support/maintenance costs and costs for future 'enhancements' that you have
to purchase in full as separate modules...

Also, if there is an aspect of the system that is important to you, make
sure they have a large user base in that aspect of the system. If not, your
enhancement requests will never get added to the software and you'll feel
like you have spent $50,000 in maintenance fees for very little added-value.

Also, if there is a specific module you are interested in, ask about all the
details before purchasing the system so you don't wind up buying something
that is useless.

I don't remember Global Shop, but they did not make it as one of my final
3...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
7
I have no experience with Global Shop Solutions. I don't speak for our
company (incase epicor's legal department is listing) but I would not
endorse the purchase of Vantage at our company if we had it to do over
again. I was not involved in the initial purchase but I do have to live
with the product. One definite bonus for Vantage is this user group. Very
helpful if not somewhat entertaining at times. If I had the time and $$$
again, I would have choose Great Plains. Wonderfull product. I ran a Great
Plains shop for 5 years and only came across one bug in all that time. Of
course, I have no idea what Microsoft has done to it since it has been
purchased.

Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: wideright62 [mailto:rwheatley@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:02 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions


I work for Innotek Powder Coatings, LLC in Big Spring, Texas. Our
company is in the final evaluation stage of purchasing either Vantage
or the Global Shop Solutions package and Vantage has graciously given
us access to this user group.

We would appreciate any comments you might have about either package,
but are especially interested in your comments about Vantage, such as:

Would you recommend that we purchase it? Why or why not?
Has Vantage performed as well as you expected it to?
How would you rate the Vantage tech support? User documentation?
Are there specific areas the Vantage does well or not-so-well?
Any comments you have that might impact our decision.

We are basically asking for input from real users that work with
Vantage everyday and have seen how it helps or hinders daily business
activities. Your comments would be greatly appreciated and, if
possible, we would like to hear from you by June 21, 2002.

Russell Wheatley
Internal Audit Manager




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
8
Probably changed the user interface a little and doubled/tripled the price!

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:07 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions


'Of course, I have no idea what Microsoft has done to it since it has been
purchased.'
9
Russell,

Before you make a decision, I recommend that you have each vendor
give you a live demonstration of their product. When we bought
Vantage, we first developed a requirements document for the
functionality we wanted in a manufacturing/ERP system. I read a
survey of the top 100 rated Manufacturing/ERP venders in I believe
the "Manufacturing Systems (MIS)" magazine. Then I contacted some of
the vendors and got specifications and demo software from many
vendors. Vantage provided all of the functionality we wanted, at the
price we wanted.Others vendors competed but wanted too much money and
were more complex. Vantage was very reasonable and just as
functional. We have had veery good experience with Vantage and great
support from their technical support group and consulting group. The
yearly maintenance cost is based on a the number of users and seem to
be in line with the industry standard which is around 15%. We have a
very unique operation and have been able to make Vantage work for us
without customization. Most companies are unique and no COTS ERP
software can accomodate every unique aspect of business operations. I
am the Vantage technical administrator. Please call me if you have
any additional questions.

Joan Glenn
IT Manager
Rothe Joint Venture
NASA/JSC
281-483-3474
10
Of the final 3 packages we evaluated, Vantage was the most compatible with
our business needs and seemed to be the easiest to implement. I still feel
that it is a good match to our business (with a few exceptions) and I am
relatively happy with the software. Of course, whenever you are dealing
with the sales department, they are misleading, and some things that we were
told the software could do or were promised would 'be in the next release'
either weren't, or were but as a separate module we had to buy.

As far as Tech support, in my opinion it's a 'hit or miss' thing. I have
called and been blown away by the knowledge of the support staff and I have
also called and it has taken me a half hour to explain even how to get to
where I'm at in the software, as if the person had never seen vantage
before. There have also been times when my issue was never resolved yet the
call was closed.

The same can be said about training classes. I have had some amazing
instructors from Vantage. At the same time, they have put me in a room with
instructors who knew how to do it in 'Avante' (another epicor package), but
did not have a clue about Vantage. In these cases I knew far more than the
instructor and ended up helping other students when the instructor couldn't
and left feeling like I wasted both time and money.

As far as documentation, for the most part it's been good, but sometimes
there are things missing or misprints that can lead to wasted time and
frustration. Also, there is often additional needed documentation or fix
programs that tech support has, but it's not published on the site and you
have to call them to get it. I find this very frustrating, especially if
it's needed after hours.

There is a lot of capability in Vantage and it would take a long time to
list all the pros and cons of the software. If there is a specific module
or functionality you are interested in, if I'm using it, I'll give you
feedback.

I think good and bad will come anywhere. For the most part, Vantage is a
good product, with good people behind it, who do their best to keep as many
people as possible happy... but, they also fall down at times.
11
I agree with everything that Sarah has said and would like to add that if
you do not have a good handle on all your internal process's do not expect
to get any direction from Epicor. I have found that they will not answer
questions related to how you should do things. This is where the group has
been a tremendous help to me.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: sarah.vareschi@... [mailto:sarah.vareschi@...]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage vs. Global Shop Solutions


Of the final 3 packages we evaluated, Vantage was the most compatible with
our business needs and seemed to be the easiest to implement. I still feel
that it is a good match to our business (with a few exceptions) and I am
relatively happy with the software. Of course, whenever you are dealing
with the sales department, they are misleading, and some things that we were
told the software could do or were promised would 'be in the next release'
either weren't, or were but as a separate module we had to buy.

As far as Tech support, in my opinion it's a 'hit or miss' thing. I have
called and been blown away by the knowledge of the support staff and I have
also called and it has taken me a half hour to explain even how to get to
where I'm at in the software, as if the person had never seen vantage
before. There have also been times when my issue was never resolved yet the
call was closed.

The same can be said about training classes. I have had some amazing
instructors from Vantage. At the same time, they have put me in a room with
instructors who knew how to do it in 'Avante' (another epicor package), but
did not have a clue about Vantage. In these cases I knew far more than the
instructor and ended up helping other students when the instructor couldn't
and left feeling like I wasted both time and money.

As far as documentation, for the most part it's been good, but sometimes
there are things missing or misprints that can lead to wasted time and
frustration. Also, there is often additional needed documentation or fix
programs that tech support has, but it's not published on the site and you
have to call them to get it. I find this very frustrating, especially if
it's needed after hours.

There is a lot of capability in Vantage and it would take a long time to
list all the pros and cons of the software. If there is a specific module
or functionality you are interested in, if I'm using it, I'll give you
feedback.

I think good and bad will come anywhere. For the most part, Vantage is a
good product, with good people behind it, who do their best to keep as many
people as possible happy... but, they also fall down at times.


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
12
I have a different perspective than Mark regarding getting help from Epicor
with internal processes. Our assigned implementation consultant was great
in discussing different ways to do things and the ramifications of such
decisions. He was experienced in dealing with all different types of
manufacturers and the best approach in using the software for each type. If
you attend a training class, you can always get instructor assistance with
specific issues on breaks and after class. At the user conferences, you can
corner almost any Epicor representative with a "how would you handle this
situation" question with good results. The helpline people are also
sometimes helpful in this regard. Of course, you can always pay a
consultant to come to your facility to review your processes with the
software in mind.
There you have my $.02.
Nora Story
Spectra Technologies, Inc.
>